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Have you ever considered the intricate dance between our physical and emotional selves? Nadine sits down with Jules Sargent, a massage therapist with a passion for the human soul, embarking on a new venture as a counselor.
In a heartfelt and profound conversation, Jules unveils the transformative nature of her 'talk-touch' sessions, a therapeutic approach blending massage with dialogue to address emotional blockages.
As they discuss Jules's transition from the bustling life in Sydney to the tranquil mid-north coast, the conversation reveals the essentiality of self-care for those in the healing professions, and Jules's own practices to maintain her emotional reservoir.
Touching the tender topics of death, grief, and the somatic signs of emotional turmoil, this episode traverses the often-unspoken link between our bodies and the emotions that course through them. Inspired by the wisdom of Peter Levine and Gabor Maté, Nadine and Jules confront the human tendency to bottle up feelings and the regret that can accompany unexpressed sentiments towards those we've lost. They reflect on the Western stance on mortality and advocate for a more empathetic approach in expressing love and resolving conflicts before it's too late.
In an exploration that spans from the profound impact of journaling to the emotional complexities of cesarean births, the duo shares personal insights on the transformative power of acknowledging and validating one's experiences. They break down societal pressures that can leave new mothers feeling disempowered and address the necessity of compassionate communication.
As the episode closes, Nadine and Jules invite listeners to consider the profound influence of empathy and genuine care for the well-being of those around us, whether it's in counselling, parenting, or simply being a friend.
Jules has been working one on one with people for 20 years. Her passion for helping people started with massage therapy.
Her love for working with people through touch therapy over the past two decades has brought an awareness of the mind/body connection to the fore. Because of her devotion to this industry and her ongoing connection with people and touch therapy, and her evolving understanding of how she can best serve her clients, she has been inspired to become a qualified counsellor.
Find Jules @julessargent.com
Speaker 1: Hello, hello, it's Nadine here and I'm here with
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this week's episode of Life, health and the Universe and I'm
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joined this week by my guest and friend and massage therapist,
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jules Jules Sargent.
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Welcome, jules, good to have you here, thank you to get you
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here, but but here we both are.
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Um, I'm really looking and I was kind of thinking about it
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this morning and I'm like this girl's probably never seen me
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like for an hour, like face to face, my head in a in a table.
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I like looking at your face.
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This is nice.
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Yeah, it's a nice change, okay, um, so, um, thank you for for
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joining me.
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So quick intro um, as I said, you're dual sergeant.
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You're a massage therapist and a counselor I'm not sure, like,
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how else to describe that like in terms of what, what you
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actually focus on in your, in your work.
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Um, you're similar to me.
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Moved from sydney to the mid north coast not that long ago.
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I think we've just hit four years.
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I don't know if you're similar.
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We're around 18 months.
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Oh, you're still newbies, so you're very fresh.
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Yeah, and, uh, you moved up here with husband and little one
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for a quieter life.
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Sparta, yeah, sparta, out of the big smoke, yeah, sparta.
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So I'm super grateful to have you here.
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We are never, ever short of anything to talk about, but
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we're here today to talk about your work, specifically the
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counseling work, because it's something that you are
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relatively new at.
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Like, it's obviously come into your work a lot.
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You're never just a massage therapist, right.
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You're never just a personal trainer like me.
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You're counseling.
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You're working with people's emotions, behaviors and that
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sort of thing when they're on the table.
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Um, but you're trying, you're directing your work, um, more
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into the area of counseling.
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That's right, yeah, yeah, so we're here to talk about that
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today, okay, um, and so I'm gonna hand over to you.
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I'm drinking my coffee Saturday morning, just kicking back and
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having a chat, oh yeah.
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So tell us a little bit about about you.
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You know who you are, where you've been beautiful.
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Speaker 2: Thanks, nadine, thanks for having me.
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You asked me um at some point last year and I think I fogged
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you off for the first, first, first and second time you asked
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me.
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I think I changed subject quite quickly, um, and then I thought
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no, it's, it's um, life is about doing things, um, that
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make us feel a little bit uncomfortable.
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Um, so I'm doing that.
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I do feel a little bit uncomfortable, but it's only
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because I'm a little bit nervous , but you hold space beautifully
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.
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So I started working one-on-one with people about 20 years ago
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and that was in the massage realm more sort of the sports
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remedial sort of grunt, you know , heavy, heavy sort of tissue
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work and felt very comfortable in that realm and have been
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quite successful with that, setting up a business in the
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northern beaches of Sydney and then moved over to London and
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set my business up there quite quickly and lived over there for
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five years doing doing the massage, and as the years went
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on, I just I was just learning more and more about people, how
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we think, why we think these thoughts and why we act, and you
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know just different, just everything, everything about
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humans, and it just fascinated me so.
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I think it was about.
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It was in the middle of one of the I think it was the first
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lockdown of COVID or something.
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I started studying my counselling so maybe three years
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ago and it just seemed like a natural progression for me.
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Having people on a massage table is, and can be, a very
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vulnerable state for some.
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You know, you've got your naked or you've just got your
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underpants on and essentially it's a stranger just working on
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your tissues and it brings a lot up and it brings a lot out and
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I felt like I was holding space for that quite well, but I
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needed extra tools to help me with that.
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Hence the study into the um, into the counselling um.
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And then, as we touched on, I moved up here 18 months ago with
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my family and it was my opportunity to step away a
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little bit from the massage.
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That's what my client base knew in Sydney and I thought it
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would be quite hard to sidestep away from that with that
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existing base.
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So I took the opportunity when we moved up here and I offer
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just massage or just the counselling.
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But I've also done a little beautiful hybrid of a talk-touch
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session where for the first half of the session it's
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essentially the counselling part of it and we just have a chat
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and we debrief and download and I pick up on different emotions
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that are being stored in the body and then I get the client
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on the table and release that through the touch and it's just
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so powerful, so powerful wow, wow.
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Speaker 1: Do you get emotional when you do that work, do you
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like?
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How do you?
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Because I think I probably question.
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I think I'd probably, because you feel it right, that's how
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you know how to treat it.
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So how do you?
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Yeah, it not with them, sort of thing yeah, it's.
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Speaker 2: It's a tough one, I mean because in the session
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you're working on so many different levels.
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I mean I find it hard sometimes to block certain people's
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energy and I don't know, I can't put that down to you know, it
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might be that they carry a heavier energy, or it might be
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that I feel an affiliation to them.
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You know, sometimes you can't describe energy which is
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beautiful, right?
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So, yeah, I just always make sure I do my self-care, so it
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might be an ocean swim after a day's work, or an ice bath or,
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you know, some meditation, really washing off physically
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and energetically, washing off the clients had that day yeah,
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because I reckon I think even what I knew.
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You can affirm or deny this, but like physically working with
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people, regardless of your whether you're doing the, the
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talk side of it could be quite energetically draining
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absolutely, and, and you know, I could have someone walk in for
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a massage and and this has happened over the years walk in
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for a massage, and this has happened over the years walk in
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for a massage.
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We do the debrief at the start.
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I get the history and the background.
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They jump on the table and not a word is spoken, but I'm
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picking up through their body and you know it's such a
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closeness, it's such a personal thing.
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Yeah, wow.
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Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about your counselling, but
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you mentioned when we said that we would have this chat about
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somatics, and can you tell us, talk us through, what somatics
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is and how you work with that in your practice as well?
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Speaker 2: I'm just going to use quite layman's terms because I
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don't feel like it's basically how our body stores energy and
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emotions, okay, and and then what we do with that?
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So that can be a domino effect of huge compensation physically
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in the body.
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Um, and then I mean, and that would be a good outcome, because
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at the other end it could be disease and illness.
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You know people that repress and push down emotions.
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And don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for
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self-preservation.
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Speaker 1: But if that's ongoing over years, it can cause a lot
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of health, lot of health stuff, as you would know yeah, I think
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it like I really want to draw people's attention to this
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because I think that it's still like there's still, with so many
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people would disconnect with that that our emotions play a
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significant and vital role in our physical bodies and like we
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actually like there's studies that have been done where you
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know, for example, when people meditate, if they can, they can
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change their chemistry and they've had blood tests done and
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they've watched their brainwaves and that sort of
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thing but their blood work changes and it's like.
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This is like, it's real.
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It's like this shit's real, absolutely, absolutely.
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Do you have you got any examples of like, how it could
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be stored in the body, like, because obviously you're talking
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about disease you could talk about, I guess um, for us it
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could be working in the, the fitness industry.
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It could be like injury, like someone who gets consistently
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injured, um could be an emotional thing that's going on
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for them.
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Where do you, how do you have any examples of like when you're
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working with the tissues?
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Speaker 2: yeah, absolutely.
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I mean, I had one, a recent client, um, only last week and
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she's in a bit of a, she's in a bit of a quandary at the moment
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with um, financial stability, and she didn't mention this
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until after the session, which was interesting because it was
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just for a massage, it wasn't the counselling and she's a
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regular client and I said to her at the end of the session
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what's going on with this lower back, like your sacrum and
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pelvis really don't feel okay, it's very unusual for you to be
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storing there, and I just feel like there's no space.
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And she just broke down and she just said I've just got X, y, z
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going on and it's all around stability and security.
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And that, especially in women, is where we store If we're not
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feeling secure or stable.
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It goes straight to our sacrum and pelvis and is presented in
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her immediately.
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Wow, it's just, it's undeniable , it's undeniable.
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And then by having that touch, that somatic, it just released
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in her and she just had this flood of tears that was
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streaming in her body.
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Yeah, and she made the comment.
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She said I haven't cried for years.
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Wow, and she looked different, she felt more stable in her body
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.
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She messaged me two days later saying I've just gone for a long
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walk up and down hills and I haven't felt this great for
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months.
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Wow, and it wasn't from a physical injury, it wasn't from
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oh, I twisted out of bed.
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The wrong way it was, it was build up of emotion and stress.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, have you read any books about like that stuff?
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I know that there's a guy, peter Levine, who wrote the Body
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Keeps the Score and I think that's about trauma and how we
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process it in our bodies.
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Have you read any other books that, like?
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Speaker 2: I've kind of feel like in the past I've I have, um
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, you know, heard of books about that stuff yes, yeah, I mean,
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there's a lot like um, I'm just there's one I can picture saying
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my body speaks, my, I can't.
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I can't picture it.
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I've got it down in my studio, but there's.
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I don't know if you've ever touched on his work.
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Is it Gabble Mate?
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Speaker 1: Ah, yes, yeah.
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Speaker 2: Am I saying it right yeah?
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So I started listening to his podcast,
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annoyingly over a flight from Coffs to Sydney and it was such
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a small flight that I couldn't hear my podcast- because I was
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in a wing to sydney and it was such a small flight that I
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couldn't hear my podcast because I was in the wing.
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um, but just a beautiful voice and a beautiful delivery of you
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know, and it's just, there's so many, as you say, different
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studies and um tests that have been done, it's, you can't deny
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this think actually, when I first came across it, louise Hay
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was yes, that back in the.
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Yes, back in the day you might have been one of the first.
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You know like you can heal your life.
00:13:36
Yes, exactly, yeah.
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Oh, who was the other one that just dropped in?
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Speaker 1: Who was the other one that just dropped?
00:13:48
Speaker 2: in.
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I'll come back to it.
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It will come to you.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I think all of that stuff is super fascinating, yeah, and
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it's hard as well, because it's kind of on a logical level, if
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you do like, if it does resonate for you, and you kind of go, oh
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yeah, well, that makes sense.
00:14:04
You know there's proof.
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But some of those feelings and emotions run so deep, don't they
00:14:10
, that you can think that you're kind of, you know, meditating
00:14:14
your way out of them.
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Speaker 2: But there's often the other voice it's there.
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It's there, it's there.
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You know, childhood, early childhood, stuff that we
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wouldn't have a memory of necessarily.
00:14:33
Yeah, in utero, in utero, oh scary.
00:14:39
Speaker 1: Oh dear, scary, One of the okay Things are going to
00:14:45
get so um, before we press record, I was like, oh, I said
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to you I hope I don't cry, but then I was like part of the
00:14:58
whole reason I wanted to talk to you.
00:14:59
Aside from the fact that we always have really good
00:15:03
conversations, um was and rants?
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yeah, we do love a rant, love putting the world to rights.
00:15:10
We're being very we're actually being quite subdued today.
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We are, I like, this version of us.
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Who are we?
00:15:19
So, yeah, I was like, oh, I hope I don't cry.
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And then I was like part of the reason I wanted to talk to you
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about this is because I'm because of that.
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I want to explore our human behavior when it comes death and
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grief.
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Um, getting your perspective as a counselor, um, so, and and
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like that, either, let's start with the crying thing, right,
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yeah, because I'm like I hope I don't cry.
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And then I'm like, why is it such a bad thing to cry?
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So, at the end of last year, my nan died and there comes, and so
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there was a period of time leading up to it, right, getting
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unwell, she was in hospital and I just started to contemplate
00:16:33
life and death, right, and I was so one of the big questions for
00:16:38
me, um, that came up that I would love to talk about, and
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usually, when I, once I've got past this kind of lump in my
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throat, I'm okay, like I won't cry the whole time.
00:16:49
Um is like, why do we wait until someone is dead or about
00:17:02
to die before we express how we feel that was a big one that
00:17:09
came up, especially because I know that my mum and my nan had
00:17:12
a an interesting relationship, you know, and it's all our own
00:17:16
personal perspectives, right, it's how we interpret it.
00:17:19
So my mum had her stories about her relationship, her, you know
00:17:23
, childhood with her mom and her relationship and how she never
00:17:26
felt wanted and all of those things.
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And I thought, when someone gets to the end of their life,
00:17:33
do you want to, do you, as the person that's being left behind,
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want to, um, still feel all of those things, not have resolved
00:17:42
all of those things?
00:17:43
Why do we wait until the last minute before all of that stuff
00:17:47
comes up?
00:17:48
Big questions, but these are kind of the things that I was
00:17:52
pondering, and we just don't talk about death.
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Speaker 2: No, the Western lens of death is so toxic, it's so
00:18:08
jarring and I feel this is all personal opinion really cold,
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really unempathetic, really just disjointed and disconnected,
00:18:25
really just disjointed and disconnected.
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Um, I, I definitely feel like there's something in um,
00:18:39
something to do with generational.
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So, um, you know, for your nan and mum, it's that generation
00:18:46
where it was sort of you know that we don't, we don't show
00:18:50
emotion, so that definitely would come into play.
00:18:53
I hope that as we teach our children it, it changes.
00:18:58
But it's like I've always been confused at why someone would
00:19:07
have.
00:19:07
If they put out an invitation to a party, they might get 30
00:19:12
people, but if it was their funeral, they'd get 130.
00:19:16
And I've always thought why aren't we same sort of thing?
00:19:20
Why is it after the person's gone, do we?
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Speaker 1: show up.
00:19:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bamboozled me and in the work I've done in
00:19:38
the counselling realm.
00:19:39
So when I first started the counselling, I and still do
00:19:43
volunteer for a wonderful association called NALAG, the
00:19:47
National Association of Loss and Grief.
00:19:49
Okay, and they support people, can reach out and have
00:19:56
counselling sessions for free essentially it's a voluntary
00:19:59
service and I felt so privileged and I still feel privileged
00:20:07
volunteering for this association because the people
00:20:12
that open up to you and share their experiences around death
00:20:17
and grief and loved ones is just phenomenal, from all ages.
00:20:22
Losing, you know, an elderly grandparent or losing a child,
00:20:36
it's.
00:20:37
I feel it brings more of a stigma and it makes it worse
00:20:41
because we don't talk about it.
00:20:43
Yeah, we need to talk about it, Everyone experiences it.
00:20:48
It's the one thing we can't get away from, but it's almost
00:20:53
taboo in some households, yeah, yeah totally.
00:20:57
Speaker 1: It's weird, isn't it?
00:20:58
I really want to get to the bottom of it.
00:21:01
I don't know if we will, but I think that I guess one of the
00:21:06
reasons that I wanted to have this conversation on the podcast
00:21:09
is to get people to think about it and like what are their
00:21:14
associations with death?
00:21:15
And is it like I guess there's a bit of fear?
00:21:21
Speaker 2: There's definitely fear.
00:21:22
It's the unknown and, as we know, fear is the unknown.
00:21:25
Fear is future.
00:21:25
It's all unknown and, as we know, fear is the unknown.
00:21:27
Fear is future.
00:21:28
It's all that like we don't know.
00:21:30
We've never been here before.
00:21:31
I'll briefly touch on this.
00:21:39
My dear dad.
00:21:39
I lost my dear dad last year to the horrible disease of MND
00:21:44
motor neurons year to the horrible disease of MND motor
00:21:45
neurons.
00:21:46
And my dad was a very fit, vibrant 78-year-old man.
00:21:58
If you'd met him you would have thought he was 60.
00:21:59
And from date of diagnosis to the date of my dad's funeral, it
00:22:01
was 16 weeks.
00:22:03
We had four months with him.
00:22:05
Dad's funeral it was 16 weeks.
00:22:12
Well, we had four months with him.
00:22:13
And my dad was from northern England, he was from Newcastle
00:22:14
and raised by a Scottish mother, so very crack on.
00:22:16
You know, I don't know if my dad ever received a hug from his
00:22:19
parents.
00:22:19
So then that was passed down and dad found it really hard to
00:22:24
show that emotion.
00:22:25
But in that 16 weeks, nadine, I got to have conversations with
00:22:37
my dad.
00:22:37
I would never have had if he just didn't wake up one morning,
00:22:41
yeah, morning, yeah.
00:22:54
So I have experienced grief and loss before with with
00:22:55
grandparents, um, but when it was someone so close and I was,
00:22:58
I was with him a lot in that, in that physically with him a lot,
00:23:02
it's.
00:23:03
It's given me a new perspective and lens as well.
00:23:07
So it's definitely taken away the fear, yeah, so maybe there
00:23:13
is something in that.
00:23:14
It's.
00:23:16
Maybe, if people haven't experienced it or been with
00:23:19
someone at end of life, it is the unknown and it is scary.
00:23:25
It is the unknown and it is scary, but if you can bring a
00:23:33
softening to that and an openness and just a really
00:23:35
heart-centred approach.
00:23:37
In my case, dad, I've never said these things to you and I'm
00:23:46
going to sit here and tell you now because I've been given this
00:23:49
gift, I've been given this opportunity and it was
00:23:54
reciprocated Like he, it was just beautiful.
00:23:57
It was just beautiful and this is someone who lives 78 years in
00:24:03
a certain way, like a really stoic way.
00:24:07
Yeah, and end of life can do beautiful things.
00:24:15
It doesn't have to be tragic, it doesn't have to be dark and
00:24:23
gloomy, like he is everywhere now.
00:24:26
Yeah, it's my belief system.
00:24:28
He wore red a lot.
00:24:30
His favourite colour was red, and I know when I need to speak
00:24:34
to my dad.
00:24:34
I look, I go for a walk and I just see red, red cars, people
00:24:39
wearing red hats.
00:24:40
So and that leads me into what is really important in loss and
00:24:47
grief, and I just want to say grief isn't just bereavement.
00:24:52
Grief can be anything from the loss of a job, moving countries,
00:24:59
you know anything.
00:25:00
It's just not bereavement.
00:25:02
But we are talking about bereavement here.
00:25:04
It's really important to have a faith or a belief system,
00:25:15
whatever that looks like, because I don't know if I would
00:25:17
have gotten through that experience with my dad without
00:25:20
my own belief system and faith.
00:25:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, thank you for sharing that with us.
00:25:28
Yeah, I think it.
00:25:30
I think, um, okay, so my experience so far, like I
00:25:35
haven't lost a parent.
00:25:36
I've lost a couple of all my grandparents now, I think, but
00:25:41
um it, it interests me as well how it's really easy to be quite
00:25:47
pragmatic right as the grown up .
00:25:51
You know well, I think I'll probably live until I'm 85.
00:25:54
And then I'm gonna, you know, I've written my will and I'm
00:25:56
gonna, you know, and all of those things, and make it quite
00:25:59
practical.
00:26:00
And, yeah, not express like I'm frightened even beforehand or
00:26:06
like this is going to be.
00:26:08
You know, this is just another part of life, like it's just so
00:26:12
taboo, true, yeah, and yeah, I am Interestingly like obviously
00:26:21
there's a whole bunch of shit that I've still got to go
00:26:24
through, because I cried when my nan died and my kids were like
00:26:32
are you crying?
00:26:36
Because I don't cry very much.
00:26:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but that could you know.
00:26:40
And then that leads me on to and this might not be the case
00:26:45
for you, but it can then be something like um cumulative
00:26:52
grief, where it's.
00:26:54
You know, I've I've had clients who will come and talk to me
00:27:01
about a loss, and there's one client in particular I'm
00:27:11
thinking of, so I'll reference her.
00:27:13
I won't reference her personally, but I'll reference
00:27:16
her story.
00:27:16
She came to me about talking about the loss of her mother,
00:27:23
which was quite recent, but actually the second session in
00:27:30
it was all about the loss of her father 10 years prior that
00:27:33
she'd never dealt with.
00:27:34
Wow.
00:27:35
So that's compounding all the grief and if we don't get on top
00:27:42
of it when it is still quite fresh and raw, which is really
00:27:47
hard to do, it will bite you in the ass.
00:27:50
It will bite you in the ass.
00:27:52
Grief is a fucker, it's a shit.
00:27:56
Yeah, wow, it will get you 5, 10, 15, 20 years later, wow.
00:28:11
Speaker 1: It's hard, isn't it?
00:28:12
It's, yeah, and I think it can be, probably can be hard as well
00:28:14
, because there'll be so many, so much going on emotionally,
00:28:17
like if you didn't have a very good relationship with, if you
00:28:20
agree, like bereavement, if, if you didn't have a good
00:28:23
relationship there, there could potentially be all the things
00:28:24
that you didn't have a good relationship there.
00:28:25
There could potentially be all the things that you didn't
00:28:28
resolve.
00:28:29
Oh, all that.
00:28:30
But then it's like, well, they were, they were horrible to me
00:28:35
and and so you have all of these feelings of like relief or yeah
00:28:40
, yeah, to go with it, yeah, kind of process all of that as
00:28:45
well.
00:28:45
What?
00:28:45
What kind of person am I if I'm relieved that this person has
00:28:49
left, kind of thing?
00:28:51
Speaker 2: yeah, and we question , but there's no template.
00:28:54
There's no you know what, what you felt, um, and what you're
00:28:59
still feeling, clearly, around the loss of your nan.
00:29:02
It might not have been the same for another grandparent,
00:29:05
because you've had completely different relationships with
00:29:08
everyone.
00:29:08
Our relationships are different with every other individual and
00:29:15
I think what's really important to remember amongst the
00:29:20
heaviness of grief, is a level of acceptance in who that person
00:29:28
was and also be kind to yourself in the fact that it
00:29:35
takes two in a relationship.
00:29:37
And I forget the saying.
00:29:40
It's something about and maybe I've made this up, maybe there
00:29:43
is no saying, but you know, when you put someone that's passed
00:29:49
on a pedestal, so when the and I will still reference my dad,
00:29:57
and he wasn't all good, you know good in inverted commas he had
00:30:03
his faults because he was human and at times our relationship
00:30:09
was really fraught, but at the end it's acceptance and
00:30:14
forgiveness and heart-centred is just so important, and that is
00:30:18
to the other person but more importantly towards yourself.
00:30:21
Yeah.
00:30:24
Speaker 1: When you so you have you, you you've had counseling.
00:30:29
Are you in ongoing counseling for your personal?
00:30:32
Uh, how do you as a, as a counselor and um, a volunteer
00:30:38
for the?
00:30:38
Um, what's it called?
00:30:40
Yeah, um, what sort of is?
00:30:45
Is it talk therapy?
00:30:47
Is there anything else involved , like it's, it's talk therapy.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: So with the national association of loss and grief,
00:30:55
uh, that's all.
00:30:56
Phone sessions.
00:30:57
It can be zoom, but a lot of minor phone, which brings
00:31:00
another element of um, deeper communication, because you don't
00:31:05
have the visual.
00:31:06
So there's a lot of.
00:31:07
You've got to pick up on a lot of cues just through the sound,
00:31:11
just through the voice, which is one level.
00:31:16
Then you've got the level that we're at, where Zoom, we can see
00:31:20
each other and there is a level of energy exchange, but then
00:31:27
when you've got someone physically in the same room,
00:31:34
then that's another, you know.
00:31:35
So there's a lot of different layers and realms that come into
00:31:38
what sort of session you have.
00:31:40
Yeah, and the interesting, another interesting thing about
00:31:44
grief is and it was funny I've been on the other side as the
00:31:50
practitioner and therapist and someone has come to me for grief
00:31:54
and we end up talking about a whole heap of other stuff.
00:31:56
Yeah, and that's what's happened to me personally.
00:31:59
So I've probably had now, I reckon, seven sessions with my
00:32:06
counsellor since, since losing dad, and I think, time wise,
00:32:14
we've probably only spent one session on the grief at the
00:32:17
moment.
00:32:17
Right, because it's what it brings up.
00:32:20
It's stuff that we have again for self-preservation in the
00:32:24
past, pushed down and repressed.
00:32:26
Yeah, that's all got to come out first, because that the grief
00:32:30
is the deep, the deeper stuff.
00:32:33
There's a lot of stuff bubbling on the surface with us all the
00:32:37
time, because we've lived a life doesn't matter, you know and
00:32:41
we've had experiences.
00:32:42
But I said to my counsellor are we ever going to get to this?
00:32:47
Like, are we ever going to get to it?
00:32:50
And she said it.
00:32:51
It's obvious that you're not ready yet, jules, because
00:32:54
there's other stuff that we've got to unpack.
00:32:56
So I get it.
00:32:57
I get it from both ends now, from from the from the therapist
00:33:01
side and the client side yeah, do you um?
00:33:06
Speaker 1: do you feel like you come away from a session um with
00:33:11
like work that you need to do?
00:33:15
Like do you think all right, uh , do you journal or like, have
00:33:20
you got any?
00:33:21
Like?
00:33:21
Do you use the same sort of um processes, like swimming in the
00:33:27
ocean or ice bath or anything like that, to help you with your
00:33:32
own like when you've been in a counselling session, as the
00:33:37
counselling?
00:33:39
Speaker 2: client.
00:33:40
Yes, I journal a lot after I've been the client.
00:33:46
I feel like it's one of those things that hashtagging has
00:33:57
taken away the you know journaling is very important,
00:34:00
but now it's hashtag journaling.
00:34:02
But it's so important I just call it a brain dump.
00:34:06
We've got to get it out Again.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: You don't want to store it in your body because
00:34:11
then that leads to injuries or illness or disease, ailments and
00:34:18
there's so many like we're on those loops, right, those
00:34:24
thought loops, where you just have the same things going round
00:34:28
and round and round in your head.
00:34:29
When you write it down, it's like okay, it's there now.
00:34:33
Speaker 2: It's out, I can now move on to my next thought, next
00:34:36
loop.
00:34:37
Yeah, exactly Because and you would know this you stay in a
00:34:42
loop and I visualise like going down a mountain on skis and
00:34:50
creating the same grooves in the snow and just getting deeper
00:34:53
and deeper, and deeper and deeper, and that's then in our
00:34:57
neurological pathways and it's harder to come back up from.
00:35:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, so get it out, don't make the groove deep, yeah
00:35:08
, and the deeper those grooves become, the more like we, we
00:35:11
kind of create this own personal reality, don't we of like it
00:35:17
apparent, I think like, well, it's, yeah, it's all our
00:35:23
personal perception, basically and, and it ends up being so far
00:35:28
from what the original thought half the time.
00:35:31
Speaker 2: So how did I get to that?
00:35:32
Yeah, did I get to that from that, and.
00:35:36
But now this is my reality.
00:35:37
Yeah, and now I've created this story and narrative yes, yeah,
00:35:42
and that's basically our entire life, and then you've got to go
00:35:46
and see a counsellor and unpack it all.
00:35:51
Speaker 1: Oh, it's amazing really.
00:35:52
You can kind of I mean, it's obviously something that's
00:36:02
vitally important to unpack this stuff right for our, for our
00:36:08
evolution and also to help with the um not passing it down
00:36:17
through the generations.
00:36:18
Yeah, like they reckon, for every, every um person that
00:36:23
heals, even if we're carrying generational trauma ourselves,
00:36:27
we can actually heal back through the generations as well
00:36:33
as healing forward so powerful, so powerful.
00:36:37
Speaker 2: And in that, nadine, I just want to sort of spark
00:36:40
something in me with again it's that, not making this stuff
00:36:45
taboo.
00:36:46
Um, our son was five when we were going through this with my
00:36:50
dad and the conversations we had with him were so open and
00:36:59
obviously he didn't, you know, obviously we weren't going into
00:37:02
detail about the horrible disease and illness, but he knew
00:37:07
grandpa wasn't well.
00:37:08
He went and saw Grandpa in the hospice, in the hospital, and he
00:37:11
knew that he was at end of life and he knew that there wasn't
00:37:15
much time left for him in this world.
00:37:18
We have, again, a belief system and it's funny, kids, the more
00:37:28
the morning that that ended up being the morning that the day,
00:37:31
the day that dad did pass, my son was brushing his teeth and I
00:37:36
said to him I just knew that that was the day and I said I'm
00:37:41
not going to go, I'm not working today, neither's.
00:37:43
Daddy, do you want to stay home with us or did you want to go
00:37:47
and go to daycare?
00:37:48
And he said no, mummy.
00:37:51
Um, I'm going to go and play with my friends.
00:37:54
And he was brushing his teeth and he looked at me and he said
00:37:56
is grandpa dead yet?
00:37:57
Just so, matter of fact, just so.
00:38:00
Um, I'm going to use the word untraumatised because we
00:38:09
normalised it and it wasn't that there was no heart in that,
00:38:14
it's just that there was no story around it.
00:38:17
He knew what was going on and then my dad passed that
00:38:23
afternoon just before we went and picked our son up and then
00:38:27
we told him and he said Mummy, I need to go and play soccer, so
00:38:36
my dad, english football, I need to go and play football on the
00:38:40
beach for Grandpa.
00:38:41
And he speaks, and sometimes we have a cry together, but he
00:38:47
just speaks about grandpa.
00:38:49
He's a spirit guide, he's, he's all around, he.
00:38:55
You know it's normalized for our son, so I'm hoping that you
00:38:59
know something that goes on and when he loses me and his dad,
00:39:05
eventually he's experienced a level of grief that's normalised
00:39:11
.
00:39:15
Yeah yeah, because it is the inevitable.
00:39:17
We all go and we all leave people behind.
00:39:23
That's the thing, yeah, yeah.
00:39:31
Speaker 1: I'm going to change the subject.
00:39:32
Do?
00:39:36
Speaker 2: Now we've covered 50 subjects.
00:39:40
Speaker 1: This is something that we talked about last time I
00:39:42
was having a massage with you, and I just think it's something
00:39:49
that we've both experienced, and I think that there's a level of
00:39:52
grief in this as well.
00:39:55
Um, and that was, uh, we both had cesareans yes and how, um,
00:40:06
that can be a real, yeah, experience of grief, and we both
00:40:21
expressed that you know to each other that we're fortunate we
00:40:23
were able to be, acknowledge how we were feeling about it, but
00:40:27
that those experiences for some women can be, um, quite
00:40:35
detrimental to their emotional health.
00:40:38
Um, yeah, so I just wanted to kind of talk about that, like
00:40:46
open up that conversation, um, between you and I, and like,
00:40:51
because I think this is also something that needs to be
00:40:57
talked about Absolutely, because there's, yeah, I don't know,
00:41:01
yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:41:08
I don't know, because it can kind of you can assume that.
00:41:13
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I don't know if it's a social
00:41:16
stigma.
00:41:16
I don't know if it's.
00:41:17
You know, and we've spoken before and I speak to this a lot
00:41:23
with girlfriends where's the sisterhood?
00:41:28
I feel like there's something in.
00:41:32
I felt shame around not being able to birth my son and I'm not
00:41:45
going to and I said this to you , I don't refer to a vaginal
00:41:49
birth as a natural birth.
00:41:50
Natural birth, it triggers me because what is it?
00:41:57
Speaker 1: That's kind of how it makes you feel.
00:41:58
It's like, yeah yeah, what the hell is it If it's not a natural
00:42:02
birth?
00:42:02
You did all of that Because I built it.
00:42:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like it's yeah, I don't know, and I don't
00:42:13
know if it's women, I don't know.
00:42:14
If it's, yeah, I I don't know, and I don't know if it's women,
00:42:16
I don't know if it's.
00:42:16
If it comes down to, we, just, we just block the men out of
00:42:23
this one and go full sisterhood, full women, womanhood, and go,
00:42:28
oh, my goodness, you've made this amazing human being and you
00:42:34
have delivered him or her earth side safely, the end, you know,
00:42:38
because I don't.
00:42:41
I have never asked you how you entered the world, because it
00:42:45
doesn't matter, like I don't like so.
00:42:50
But why then, as a mother, do we feel, I don't know, do you
00:42:58
feel a bit ripped off that you didn't?
00:42:59
Speaker 1: get to have that experience, yeah, and I feel
00:43:01
like it's well.
00:43:04
I think we both had the full experience.
00:43:09
Did we Amen sister experience?
00:43:24
Yeah, amen, sister, we went through the whole lot, we just
00:43:26
didn't get the final push.
00:43:26
Um, I think our story is quite similar.
00:43:28
Do you got in?
00:43:29
Did you?
00:43:29
Were you induced?
00:43:30
Yeah, yeah, induced, um, I have , um, yeah, contractions, went
00:43:39
through labor, basically pushed for fuck knows how long, because
00:43:44
I was in agony by that point and I'd had, and I think that
00:43:47
part of the emotional difficulty , uh, with coming to terms with
00:43:54
having eventually having a cesarean, is that they, there's
00:43:58
no preparation for that.
00:44:01
There's like, what's your birth plan?
00:44:03
Right, and you go to your classes and you, you know, they
00:44:10
tell you how to rock on a ball and how to breathe through
00:44:13
contractions.
00:44:14
None of them say, if you're in labor for eight hours and
00:44:18
nothing's happening, we'll be checking the monitor and if the
00:44:22
baby seems like it's in distress , you're going to like they
00:44:26
don't, they don't tell you that, no, and so, like you have this
00:44:31
plan in your head, you get, you know, potentially only one
00:44:35
chance to do this.
00:44:36
Yeah, and you know how, um important it is to bring a child
00:44:41
earthside right, um, but there's no, yeah, there's,
00:44:47
there's no preparation no, there's and, and I don't know
00:44:54
for you was it?
00:44:57
Speaker 2: we've got one, we didn't go on to have a second,
00:45:02
but for you was it easier for your second to accept the
00:45:10
cesarean, or was it still just?
00:45:12
Speaker 1: as hard, it was just as hard yeah so I was supposed
00:45:17
to have a v-back, which is vaginal birth after cesarean um,
00:45:23
but because there was only 18 months between Winnie and Louie,
00:45:26
they say that it's risky.
00:45:28
So my waters broke naturally.
00:45:32
But they made me stay in hospital instead of like like.
00:45:36
I was kind of like at her.
00:45:38
My waters broke about four o'clock in the morning.
00:45:40
I was at home like I could feel some light contractions.
00:45:43
Just wanted to get about my day .
00:45:45
Phone them because you're supposed to tell the hospital
00:45:47
you know, so that they kind of have it on their records.
00:45:50
Yeah yeah and they're like, oh no, you have to come straight in
00:45:53
.
00:45:53
And my contraction stopped and I was in overnight and they,
00:45:57
they, they were like they came in and they were like you can
00:46:00
carry on waiting or you can just have a cesarean.
00:46:04
And because Louis was only 18 months old, I was like I'm just
00:46:12
gonna have a cesarean.
00:46:13
Like I didn't want to, I'd never left him before.
00:46:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and do you know what?
00:46:18
That's interesting when you say you were at home, your waters
00:46:22
broke and then, and then you're taken away from that environment
00:46:25
where you say to hospital, really clinical, and it stops
00:46:30
yeah, what's that?
00:46:32
Speaker 1: about and you're not taught to trust yourself.
00:46:35
Are you and you're not taught there is?
00:46:36
Speaker 2: no empowerment, no empowerment.
00:46:39
We had a doula for our birth oh yeah and she.
00:46:45
Because we chose certain, a certain path in birthingthing
00:46:51
and we needed a voice, basically , and she was brilliant.
00:46:54
But why did we need that?
00:46:56
You know?
00:46:58
Why did we feel like we needed the third party to voice our
00:47:09
voices to the medical industry?
00:47:11
Don't start me on that.
00:47:16
Speaker 1: It's just been skewed .
00:47:18
I think it's like they're there for like to provide a service
00:47:21
and you know, if someone becomes a midwife as a profession, it's
00:47:24
because they want to help people deliver babies.
00:47:26
But then there's a system that you know and I've heard.
00:47:30
I've heard without going off on too much of a rant, but I have
00:47:35
heard since I had um louie and you know I was pushing and he
00:47:43
wasn't coming out and I've heard since that they have like a
00:47:47
protocol that if it's been going on for a period of time, the
00:47:51
protocol is we'll move to the next step, yeah, which is
00:47:56
forceps, yeah, and then if that doesn't work, yeah, basically
00:48:00
intervene it.
00:48:01
So it's not necessarily that there's a um danger.
00:48:07
Yes, they kind of tell you, ooh , yes, your baby might die, and
00:48:14
you're like what are those?
00:48:16
Speaker 2: Of course you get it Exactly, exactly.
00:48:18
So now here's a question, looking back, looking back on
00:48:28
your first would you do it the same?
00:48:32
Would you go in for induction?
00:48:37
Speaker 1: god, I don't know.
00:48:38
It's really hard, isn't it?
00:48:40
Speaker 2: yeah, because, yeah, I've asked myself that too and I
00:48:43
don't.
00:48:43
I don't know if I can drop back into that.
00:48:45
They don't empower you.
00:48:48
Speaker 1: I didn't feel empowered about my birth or my
00:48:53
pregnancy.
00:48:54
I felt doubtful.
00:48:55
Yeah, like I was 10 days overdue.
00:49:00
Yeah, advanced maternal age, I was 40.
00:49:04
And they're like oh risky, you know, could die, baby could die.
00:49:16
You're old, you're healthier than most 20-year-olds, but
00:49:23
don't worry, just go off the age .
00:49:24
But then, even after Louis was born, you know, there's a
00:49:27
comment like oh yeah, the placenta looked a bit, yeah, so
00:49:31
again you're like oh God, thank God, I did, yeah, so you could.
00:49:33
Again you're like, oh god, thank god, I did that.
00:49:34
You know, yes, yes, because my baby would have died, because my
00:49:38
placenta was bad, because I'm old, like you just go and
00:49:42
there's the story, yeah, yeah, and so yeah, I guess like
00:49:48
linking this back to to grief, I think that's a big one, yeah,
00:49:53
it's.
00:49:55
Speaker 2: And as you say, you, you're going into it, going it.
00:49:59
This might be my only chance.
00:50:01
You know, I might not be having more children.
00:50:05
This is my and it's.
00:50:07
There's such a gravity around it and, you know, pressure, lots
00:50:13
of pressure.
00:50:14
Yeah.
00:50:15
Speaker 1: Whether that's societal, coming from within,
00:50:18
yeah, yeah, I think, um, when, when it comes to like how how it
00:50:25
made me feel emotionally, I mean, when you, when you've got
00:50:27
the baby and you know you're going through all of those, the
00:50:33
beginning of motherhood and that sort of thing you don't have
00:50:36
time really, I don't think to dwell on that stuff too much.
00:50:40
But I have been triggered by women who post on socials about
00:50:49
this amazing home birth that they had and they film it and
00:50:52
the baby's coming out and they they're kind of like right on,
00:50:56
you know, um, we can do this kind of thing and I'm like I
00:51:02
don't, I didn't do it.
00:51:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, same, I feel exactly the same.
00:51:08
I almost I felt and feel stripped of something, um, and I
00:51:19
guess it is that the empowerment and the confidence.
00:51:22
I didn't have the confidence, yeah, because it wasn't.
00:51:25
Yeah, it wasn't not given to me , but it wasn't't.
00:51:31
Speaker 1: Well, you can't practice right, you can't
00:51:33
perfect it, yeah.
00:51:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
00:51:38
But that is a really really good example of grief, and this
00:51:54
is what I say with your nan yeah , it's grief.
00:51:55
Yeah, it's not just bereavement , it's, it's grief over the
00:51:59
years of you know you, you, you live abroad now, really from
00:52:02
your motherland, so there's a level of loss in that.
00:52:05
Even though it was a choice and you wanted to, that's still a
00:52:10
okay.
00:52:10
Speaker 1: There's a layer, then this is there, that's another
00:52:14
layer, so it's all compound compounding, yeah, and I think,
00:52:19
well, going back to, like, society, society and that
00:52:23
expectation, it's like you get on with it, especially, I think.
00:52:26
Well, I think men and women in different ways, but we get on
00:52:32
with it, don't we?
00:52:33
We're not allowed to talk about a lot of stuff.
00:52:35
Yeah, yeah, um, you know we have to go to work, regardless
00:52:40
of whether you know.
00:52:41
I've had a.
00:52:42
I remember a friend who had a miscarriage and we were in a
00:52:46
group um session doing training and someone said to her when are
00:52:52
you going to have another one?
00:52:53
Yeah, like, because you have to just keep going, you just have
00:52:57
to keep turning up, you don't can't tell anyone, and so
00:53:00
there's all.
00:53:00
Yeah, there's so many levels of this and I guess, um, the
00:53:05
reason I wanted to talk about it is just to really bring
00:53:07
awareness to um, to the audience .
00:53:12
Speaker 2: Anyone who's listened to this is like, I guess,
00:53:15
considering what we say to other people as well yeah, oh, the
00:53:22
amount of times and it's so interesting, willoughby started
00:53:26
kindergarten this year and the amount of times in the past
00:53:29
couple of weeks I've had women ask me so when are you having
00:53:35
your second?
00:53:35
It's an expectation and I think you don't know my story.
00:53:41
You don't know if I am able to have more children.
00:53:50
And then I start to go into this like, oh shit, I've got to
00:53:52
justify why Willoughby is an independent child I don't use
00:53:54
the term only child and then I'm like, hang on a sec, I don't
00:54:00
have to justify any of my life choices.
00:54:03
But asking another woman either oh, why didn't you have kids,
00:54:12
or why are you having more?
00:54:14
Speaker 1: no, no, no, you awareness, yeah.
00:54:22
Yeah, it's a tricky one it's yeah yeah, and I think some
00:54:28
women just don't want to have kids oh god, all power to them,
00:54:31
I say.
00:54:31
Speaker 2: I never wanted to have kids.
00:54:32
Oh God, all power to them, I say.
00:54:35
Speaker 1: I never wanted to have kids.
00:54:36
Something happened to me when I was 40 and I thought it would
00:54:38
be a good idea.
00:54:39
No, it was obviously meant to be, but it's kind of interesting
00:54:43
.
00:54:43
I was set that I wasn't going to have any, so now I can't
00:54:49
imagine it any other way.
00:54:51
Speaker 2: But this is it how things can change.
00:54:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, now I can't imagine it any other way, but
00:54:56
this is it how things can change .
00:54:57
Yes, yes, um, so, yeah, we need to talk about things, but we
00:55:00
need to be aware of other people's experiences as well.
00:55:06
Language as well, isn't it?
00:55:07
Speaker 2: it's the language you use and yeah, all that, the
00:55:10
tone but language is is so important.
00:55:12
It's, it's even that um, you know, around the cesarean or the
00:55:18
independent child.
00:55:19
Oh, you've just got willoughby.
00:55:21
You know, even just the word just in front of it makes me
00:55:24
less than do you know what?
00:55:28
Speaker 1: I've got two kids, um , but if I meet someone with
00:55:33
three, I feel like I'm totally inadequate.
00:55:36
There you go, there you go.
00:55:39
How is that?
00:55:40
There you go.
00:55:42
I'm like you know, I'm totally like in awe of someone who's had
00:55:46
three children, totally not in awe of the fact that I've had
00:55:50
two, or even had one, right, I mean like it's amazing that
00:55:55
anyone does it.
00:55:56
But I, yeah, I have some deep seated like less than stuff
00:56:03
going on it's a thing, isn't?
00:56:06
Speaker 2: it and then chucking the fact that you know you had
00:56:08
c-sections.
00:56:09
Oh my god, oh no, like yeah, it's crazy yeah, it's crazy.
00:56:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, if someone was going to, okay, we've just hit
00:56:25
our hour.
00:56:26
We had a little bit of technical hitch so we'll, if
00:56:30
you're okay with it, we'll go on for a few more minutes.
00:56:32
Yeah, sure, I am mindful of um time.
00:56:35
Um, why would well?
00:56:42
We've talked about two reasons why someone might um consider I
00:56:49
would.
00:56:49
I don't want to say need counseling, you need counseling.
00:56:53
I don't want to say need counselling, you need
00:56:57
counselling.
00:56:57
Consider counselling or support .
00:57:01
How would someone reach out to you?
00:57:04
Why might they reach out to?
00:57:08
Speaker 2: you.
00:57:08
It's such a personal I'm going to use the word journey.
00:57:10
I really don't like that word.
00:57:11
It's such a personal, it's such a I'm going to use the word
00:57:13
journey.
00:57:13
I really don't like that word.
00:57:14
It's such a personal journey.
00:57:17
The person that you decide to go into therapy with.
00:57:21
It needs to be a 200% fit and I always offer a phone call
00:57:33
beforehand because A I need to know if that person, if I can
00:57:39
help that person and support them.
00:57:41
But also the client needs to feel that connection because
00:57:46
it's energy.
00:57:47
It's energy as well.
00:57:50
So you have to feel that connection with that
00:57:53
practitioner.
00:57:58
And the reason I believe people I don't know you should or need
00:58:08
either consider talking to someone is because there is
00:58:19
great benefit in talking to someone who's completely
00:58:22
emotionally removed from everyone and everyone in your
00:58:25
life.
00:58:25
So you and I can, I can talk to you about my experience with my
00:58:33
dad, but you're going to come from, you'll hold space as a
00:58:37
friend for me, which is lovely but having and you know we could
00:58:42
sit there and cry together and you could share your experiences
00:58:46
of your nan and that would be a really beautiful place to be.
00:58:50
But when you're navigating grief, grief it needs to be
00:58:55
someone who can hold the space, who won't drop down into that
00:58:58
deep empathy with you.
00:58:59
Does that make sense?
00:59:01
Yeah, yeah, because if it's me and you, I'm then going to be
00:59:07
conscious about holding space for you and and your experience
00:59:10
with your nan.
00:59:11
But actually what I need is someone to just hold the space
00:59:17
and and let me dive deep into that whole memory- yeah, like a
00:59:25
like, almost guide you through it yeah, hold your hand, that's
00:59:30
how I say it.
00:59:30
I just stand beside you.
00:59:32
Yeah, stand beside you, but when you drop in, I'll still be
00:59:41
standing because I need to help you back up, rather than us two,
00:59:43
you know, in a friendship chat going down together.
00:59:48
Yeah, time and a place?
00:59:50
Absolutely yeah, but when you're sifting through and need
00:59:53
to move through grief, it's really important to have someone
00:59:57
who is emotionally removed from you and your family yeah, and
01:00:04
as a um, as we come to a close, as a um, do you just not just,
01:00:13
but call yourself a counsellor yes yeah.
01:00:17
Speaker 1: So, as a counsellor, what are your aspirations like?
01:00:22
When it comes to like what?
01:00:23
What do you feel um draws you towards doing this?
01:00:31
Is there like a bigger vision?
01:00:34
Is it like a simple, like you know, job?
01:00:40
I don't.
01:00:41
I don't feel like it is no, it's not a job.
01:00:45
Speaker 2: Um, it's interesting.
01:00:46
I've never I've never woken up on a Monday thinking, oh shit,
01:00:49
I've got to go to work.
01:00:50
Yeah, um, it's on a Monday thinking, oh shit, I've got to
01:00:56
go to work.
01:00:56
Yeah, it's.
01:00:58
I just love people.
01:00:59
That sounds really cheesy.
01:01:01
I just love people and I love hearing people's stories and
01:01:03
experiences and understanding again back to that understanding
01:01:11
human behaviour and why we act and do certain things and what
01:01:16
can shape that.
01:01:17
And unresolved things can shape that or or not experienced
01:01:23
things can shape that.
01:01:24
And everyone, nadine, everyone has got a story and you know
01:01:30
that from what you do working one-on-one with people.
01:01:32
And we are all and I will say this, we are all quick to judge
01:01:39
at times.
01:01:40
We are, it's in all of us.
01:01:42
Yeah, but if you just take 60 seconds to listen to someone,
01:01:50
after you say, how are you?
01:01:51
And you really mean that question, not as a hi, how are
01:01:55
you going, but how are you you will learn so much from others
01:02:04
and everyone's so busy these days with their life and it's
01:02:09
like we don't have time.
01:02:11
But we do have time.
01:02:13
You make time, yeah.
01:02:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, interestingly, something popped up for me just
01:02:22
then.
01:02:23
But it's when we do judge they can be kind of like nuggets for
01:02:29
our own personal reflection, right, shadow work.
01:02:32
Yeah, like nuggets for our own personal reflection, right,
01:02:37
shadow work.
01:02:38
Yeah, kind of.
01:02:38
So.
01:02:38
Yeah, like that can be a really uh insight.
01:02:39
Give us insights into, like why do I feel or think that way,
01:02:46
like what's going on there for me, let's?
01:02:49
And then ask yourself.
01:02:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the awareness of that, yeah, yeah,
01:02:55
and that's what work does.
01:02:56
That's what, speaking to a therapist whether it be a cancer
01:02:59
, psychologist or it sort of sets up your antennas again.
01:03:03
I describe as it's up your antennas again to then, in an,
01:03:07
in a interaction down at the grocery store, at the local
01:03:10
market, something happens and you feel a sensation in your
01:03:13
body.
01:03:13
Oh, delve into that.
01:03:16
Yeah, yeah, what did that happen?
01:03:17
Why did I feel that?
01:03:21
Speaker 1: Getting to know yourself again, peeling back the
01:03:23
layers, yeah, yeah, what would someone walk away with after a
01:03:32
period of counseling, like, do you aim to like help, give them
01:03:42
a different perspective, or do you give them tools and
01:03:47
strategies?
01:03:48
Speaker 2: yeah, definitely tools and strategies.
01:03:50
And also, I think there is a big element in all of us of
01:03:57
getting reacquainted with the self-worth and self-love we get
01:04:05
lost.
01:04:05
We get lost in life, of course.
01:04:09
So much going on, of course, so much going on, um, but but
01:04:19
doing the work is I just see it as it's just really simple.
01:04:21
Doing the work is getting to know yourself again, yeah, yeah,
01:04:22
and what comes with that is a beautiful, uh, feeling of
01:04:28
self-worth and self-love.
01:04:30
Actually, I'm not too bad, you know, yeah, you know, yeah, I'm,
01:04:36
I'm doing all right.
01:04:37
Yeah, we all have shit and we all have stuff, and no one's
01:04:42
perfect, but if you can do self-work, that is, it's just
01:04:47
commendable.
01:04:47
Speaker 1: It's commendable, yeah right, we're going to share
01:04:52
all of your details in the show notes.
01:04:55
Is there anything um that you would like to tell us about your
01:04:59
counselling business?
01:05:00
Um, before we close our conversation no, I offer.
01:05:07
Speaker 2: I do offer remote sessions, as I've mentioned
01:05:09
before on Zoom.
01:05:11
It's a personal thing.
01:05:17
Obviously, some people like being in the physical room with
01:05:19
someone, so I'm up on the Northern Rivers but I just urge
01:05:27
everyone to, if they feel, if they have been thinking about
01:05:35
speaking to someone, then do so.
01:05:36
Yeah, because it can do no harm .
01:05:37
And if that person, if you don't gel with that person, then
01:05:40
find someone that you do gel with because it's it's so
01:05:43
important for self-growth and self-healing right.
01:05:48
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today.
01:05:50
I'm sorry there was a little bit of a technical issue earlier
01:05:53
on, but we've seemed to have sorted it.
01:05:55
It's been um a joy with you, jules, thank you.
01:06:00
Thank you, I'll see you soon.
01:06:02
Thank you, bye.