Meliors Simms (The Tooth Fairy) -Transforming Dental Anxiety - A Game Changer For Empowered Healing

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Speaker 1: Hello, it's Nadine here, and I'm here with this

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week's episode of Life, health and the Universe, and today I'm

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joined by Melior Sims.

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Melior, melior, is that?

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Speaker 2: French.

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Is it French?

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It's French, but it's medieval French.

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So you say the X on the.

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Speaker 1: E.

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Oh, very good, my name's French also, so Meilleurs, welcome,

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welcome.

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It was a bit of a rough start because we had some tech issues

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when we went to hit record last week, couldn't hear each other,

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but you're here now and I'm super grateful for you putting

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aside the time to to join me today.

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So let me do a quick intro so without giving too much away.

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Melior's is uh also known as the holistic tooth fairy.

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Um, and you're you have a holistic approach to healing, uh

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, helping your clients heal their bodies naturally, their

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teeth specifically.

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Um, naturally.

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Let me read from my notes you have an holistic approach that

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supports your body to express its natural capacity to

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remineralize enamel, regrow bone and regenerate tissue, and that

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you, basically you're here for anyone who is curious.

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I love that and, yeah, who kind of knows intuitively that

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there's more to oral health than just brushing your teeth and

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not eating sugar, right?

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So I'm really excited about this conversation.

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Um, you are like are you the only person who does this?

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I think so yeah, yeah, yeah so like, what a cool job.

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Um, so let me hand over to you Millie Orr.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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Tell us more like mine was all a little bit garbled.

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I'm sure you'll have a much clearer intro.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, nadine.

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It's a great honor to get to speak with you and your audience

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today.

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So I'm Meliorz Sims and I'm a natural oral health coach and I

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work with clients all over the world because I do all my

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coaching on Zoom calls and I help people avoid unnecessary

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dental procedures with a combination of physical

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approaches to oral health, holistic nutrition, oral hygiene

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practices and working a lot with the jaw, relaxing and

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activating the jaw and aligning the bite and so on.

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And then the other side of what I do is the metaphysical, which

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is what we're going to be talking about today, but in

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practice it's really always a blend of the two, and I also,

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you know, people do still end up needing the dentist, and so I

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help people have a better experience at the dentist as

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well and overcome dental anxiety and dental trauma and make

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complicated dental decisions and all of that side of it as part

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of my work as well.

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Speaker 1: Great, thank you for joining us.

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It's going to be such a great conversation.

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So I came across you and I think, well, how lucky is this?

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It was an ad, so you can you can bet your bottom dollar that

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ads are working, because it was your book that came up.

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I can't remember exactly where, but your book came up as a

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recommended book for me um, either online or on my kindle,

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and and your book is the Secret Lives of Teeth Understanding

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Emotional Influences on Oral Health, and I was like, oh, that

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sounds interesting.

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So I bought it on Kindle.

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I have in the past loved actually, probably my first

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experience of that kind of metaphysical healing was through

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Louise Hay, who I came across when I was in my mid-20s and so,

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having something that was specific to teeth, I was like,

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well, this is cool.

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And I've had my own experiences with my teeth when I was

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without going.

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You know, this being a personal therapy session, I'll just give

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you some background.

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I had when I was a kid.

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My two front milk teeth were kind of rotten when they came

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through or looked brown.

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I don't know what that is, but I thought that was kind of

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interesting, and so as a kid I had a bit of an obsession with

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keeping my teeth really clean.

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When I was nine, I was standing behind a girl in the playground

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and she kicked up into a handstand and kicked me in the

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mouth and chipped one of my front teeth off and I had them

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filed down.

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But I've had some stuff with gums in the past and you know

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gum issues, and so I was like, oh, you know, know, I wanted to

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dig into all these things.

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But my, my little boy, I thought this was like, huh,

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what's going on here?

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He's nine.

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But when he was eight, which was almost exactly the same age

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that I was, when I broke my tooth he broke his, and I

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thought, oh, this is so, so cool .

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Like I just was like there's something going on with the tea,

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yeah, yeah.

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So that's kind of like my background and that's why I got

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hold of your book and I and, um, I've read through it and I I

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have to admit I haven't delved super deep like, but I've.

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But I definitely see that there are correlations in emotional

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stuff that was going on in childhood, and probably in

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adulthood as well, that have corresponded with those

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experiences in my mouth.

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There you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always fascinating, isn't?

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Speaker 1: it what?

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Speaker 2: yeah, it's always fascinating, isn't it, when the

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child and the parent kind of mirror each other's oral health

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experiences and, even though the the context might be different,

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it's like that pattern plays out through the, the teeth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, amazing.

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Before we go any further and like into the metaphysical and

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how that all works, can you?

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I've got two questions.

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The first one is like why are we so scared of the dentist?

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Like every story seems everyone's story seems to be of

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a fear of the dentist.

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So, um, and then I'd love to hear, like how you actually got

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into this work, like what was going on for you when the penny

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dropped for you and you were like there's something going on.

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Speaker 2: Sure, like an inherent, uh, baked in kind of

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mammal back brain response to being belly up, prone, belly up

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with someone in an authority position of authority with sharp

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tools leaning over your body, and I think the part of us that

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was, you know once a lizard or whatever is going.

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Whoa, I'm a prey animal and this is really scary, yeah, and

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so it's a very um, unconscious, uh, sort of nervous system

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response to the actual physical position.

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And then that I think um is exacerbated and made worse when

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people have painful or unpleasant or traumatic dental

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experiences, particularly because there is unfortunately

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quite a tendency of dentists to over-diagnose and over-treat.

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And there's been quite a bit of mainstream research into this

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and it's surprise economic.

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You know the capitalist system strikes again, but what it does

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is it lays in these patterns of fear and so even when you've got

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a really lovely, gentle, conservative dentist, then you

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can still have that kind of autonomic response, that nervous

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system response of all this is Right.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense.

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I just read your email.

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I think it came through.

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I came through in the last couple of days, maybe even this

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morning, about the dental profession and how that there is

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um more awareness around um dentists, over diagnosing, and

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I've certainly experienced that before, like I've had no

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problems with my wisdom teeth at all.

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They're there, that's it, or we have nearly every dentist I go

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and see, not that I see a lot, but in you know, over the past

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20 years, or you should get rid of them, I'm like I'm actually

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quite happy with my, my wisdom teeth very much, oh, but you

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don't need them.

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It's like well, but then I've seen other people who've had

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that experience and they've talked.

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You know their dentist has told them that they need to remove

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their wisdom teeth and they have had.

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I remember one lady in particular and she was like

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totally overwhelmed by the experience.

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She said she felt so different, like her facial structure

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changed.

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She was really impacted negatively, emotionally from the

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experience.

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Yeah, yeah, it's pretty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah I mean some people do need to have you

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know, do have problems with the wisdom teeth that having them

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out makes it easier to resolve those problems.

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It's the easiest way to resolve those problems.

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But it's kind of preventative approach of whip them out is is

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definitely over applied.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, we, um, we actually went to the dentist

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with our kids a couple months ago and there's a new thing for

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kids, uh, apparently, where they're putting some kind of

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cover over on the top of the tooth, on top of the molars, and

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so we got the.

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Your kids have got great teeth, but we recommend you putting

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this stuff on.

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And I'm like, but you've just said that they've got great

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teeth, and they were like, oh well, it's free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the research into those sealants is that when

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they fall off or when they come off, 90% of previously healthy

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teeth that have had sealants developed decay or cavity.

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They might have done anyway, but they might not have.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, so I'm trying to resist

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that temptation.

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Yes, and I'm not here to neither of us are here to bag

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out dentists, but we want to.

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But it's like it's about bringing awareness to us about

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our own innate ability to heal right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and our inner authority and integrity to make

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our own decisions about what dental treatment is needed and

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appropriate, and not just to get kind of bulldozed Because we're

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in that passive prey position and the dentist says, well, you

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have to have this, this and this .

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Just to get kind of bulldozed because we're in that that

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passive prey position and the dentist says, well, you have to

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have this, this and this done to you.

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It's very hard to kind of think clearly and stand up for your

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rights or even take time to like think about it for a few days

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when you're in that powerless kind of pose.

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So my new book that's coming out very shortly is called calm

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and confident in the dental chair and it's really um, it's a

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workbook for adults to overcome dental anxiety but also to make

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wise dental decisions, to be able to communicate powerfully

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and empathically with dentists and to handle all of the kind of

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sensory overload and uncomfortable sensations and

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feelings we have about the dentist.

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Because I do, you know, I do believe that we need dentists.

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Just we need them to like rein themselves in a little.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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It's like we also you know we need healthcare professionals,

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but like, yeah, we also need to take some responsibility for

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ourselves and also feel empowered to understand

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ourselves right and to make choices based on that, not just

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on like feeling.

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Yeah, like you say in that position with your mouth open

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and then they say well, we're gonna pull it out.

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Um, what's your?

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Speaker 2: so you've been doing this for eight years, ten years

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yeah, nearly eight years of coaching, um, but my um, my sort

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of journey with holistic oral health began about 12 or 13

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years ago actually, when I was in the dental chair and I woke

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up from general anesthetic because I had such terrible

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teeth, I had such problems with my teeth and and I'd had so much

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dental treatment, some of which hadn't been necessary, and I'd

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been really traumatized and so I was having panic attacks at the

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dentist and so when they needed to do what turned out to be my

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last root canal, thank God I went under general anesthetic

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for the first time for that, and then I had a panic attack under

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general, which I didn't know was possible, but it is, yeah.

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So I woke up from that and the dentist who was a very nice

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dentist told me really I had to get my act together before they

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could finish the procedure.

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So that was really the point where I started taking

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responsibility and not just doing whatever the dentist told

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me to do, following that mainstream advice.

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So I was very vigilant with my oral hygiene.

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You know, I tried to be really healthy with my diet.

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I was also very kind of conscious of holistic health

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approaches with my whole body health, so I was used to working

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with metaphysical healing and herbs and homeopathics and you

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know all of the kind of alternative approaches with the

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rest of my body, but I hadn't put it together with the issues

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I was having in my mouth.

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And so when I started looking into alternative approaches to

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oral health, it was so amazingly effective and eye-opening that

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I was just become a very enthusiastic researcher and

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experimenter on myself.

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And yeah, after a while people around me just started asking me

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for advice all the time and I thought there seems to be a bit

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of a gap here.

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There certainly wasn't anyone I could go to and ask for advice.

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So maybe I could put my shingle out and offer myself as a coach

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, and within three months of starting that as a side gig I

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was able to quit my day job.

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Speaker 1: So I've been doing it ever since.

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Yeah, it's amazing.

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Um so, going back to your own experiences, like you shared

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your story in the book, you've had how many root canals?

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Six, and in hindsight, do you think that you needed any of

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them?

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Speaker 2: I probably.

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Yeah, I needed some of them, I didn't need all of them.

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Yeah, there was the root canal where I went in with a really

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bad toothache and he drilled the wrong tooth so the toothache

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was just there when the anesthetic woke up.

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So I had to go back and he drilled and and root canaled the

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adjacent tooth and then both of those root canals failed.

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I had them both redone and then finally I said just take them

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out, and so that's when I lost two molars.

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Speaker 1: So, uh, unnecessary root canal yeah, wow, and root

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canal is not something you would go into lightly anyway, is it

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really?

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Speaker 2: it's like no, it's really.

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You'd be pretty desperate to do a root canal.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you kind of started.

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Can you talk us through what it means?

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Speaker 2: that metaphysical?

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What does metaphysics mean?

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So metaphysical means beyond the physical body, yeah, so

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where metaphysical influences on your teeth are emotional,

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energetic, psychological, environmental, ancestral, all of

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those non-physical influences that can maybe make you more

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vulnerable to the physical influences, like a dysbiosis or

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unbalanced bacteria in your oral microbiome or, you know, not

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eating the right kind of nutrients or being able to

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absorb the right kind of nutrients, even if you're eating

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them, so that your teeth and gums get the building blocks

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they need to repair and remineralize and regenerate, um,

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you're likely to be more vulnerable to those physical

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risks if you're already kind of vulnerable on that metaphysical

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level.

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So it's when people go looking for the root cause.

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I really go to the metaphysical for the root cause yeah, sure.

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Speaker 1: So an example of that ?

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Um, could you give us just an example for one of your root

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canals, what that might yeah so well.

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Speaker 2: All of my root canals were either, uh, during a

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period of, um, some form of homelessness or immediately

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afterwards.

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So either I was like couch surfing or I was like

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backpacking long travel or immigrating from one country to

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another.

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But there always is kind of very destabilized, not having my

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roots in a place, not feeling settled and at home, and so the

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roots in my teeth kind of became a physical embodiment of that,

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um, lack of groundedness, that lack of being rooted in place

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wow, that's like, and I guess that you kind of go well, that

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makes sense, right, it's like yeah yeah you know, I don't

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think if I hadn't had six root canals I might not have made

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that connection.

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I really had to have enough to kind of yeah, be you know, not

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just coincidence.

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Speaker 1: Yes but I guess, having that experience and

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putting that those dots together , you can put the dots together

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more easily for other people so they don't have to do that.

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Yeah, um, I've worked with yeah , yeah, yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: I've worked with hundreds, maybe thousands of

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people now and you know it does get a lot easier for me to make

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those connections and figure out .

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You know, is it some childhood trauma?

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Is it a family pattern that's been passed down through the

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generations?

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Is it your kind of current experience to do with work or

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family or relationships or identity?

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Or yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when you were, you said that you had kind of when

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you were you were sorry before you kind of got stuck into what

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was going on in your mouth, that you had quite a connection and

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you used sort of alternative remedies and therapies and the

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metaphysical you were aware of that kind of stuff for the rest

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of your body and that you sort of got stuck into finding out as

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much as you could about the mouth.

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But how did?

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Like you you've also expressed that like you're the only person

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who does what you do.

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Speaker 2: So how did you find the information?

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Well, I I kind of was finding little.

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I mean, I was obviously doing lots of googling so I was

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reading everything find online and there there are some

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conversations, certainly, about the meridian system of

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traditional chinese medicine and its connection with the mouth,

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and so each um part of the mouth is associated with a particular

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meridian channel, energy channel and um, and so that kind

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of gives you some clues.

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So that's where I started then.

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Um, you know other people who sort of explore this and they

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kind of um, what's the word?

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Um, it's not, it's not the main thing they do.

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But you know, there's a blog post here and a blog post there,

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kind of thing.

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Um, and then I discovered there's a couple of dentists in

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Europe who do not publish in English, so I had to use Google

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Translate to read these books.

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Wow, that was challenging, um, who do actually work in this

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area and did have quite a lot to say, and and so that was very

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helpful.

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But I'd already really figured out a lot just from working with

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my clients.

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It was really out of the practice of lots of long, deep,

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sustained conversations with people about their history,

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their circumstances and their symptoms, like leading people,

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through guided meditations, to connect with the energy of their

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, the particular symptom of their body, of you know, and and

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figuring it out just in practice.

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And so when I did discover that Dr Kiffin and Dr Bayer from

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well, they're both French their frameworks kind of fitted in on

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top of what I had figured out already.

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Speaker 1: Rather, than being the foundation, yeah, Do people

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generally, if they're going to have um, a physical response to

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something like a?

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Is it a metaphysical response or is it a?

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What do you call it?

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If they have a physical, physical response, something

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that happens in their, in their body.

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Um, like that represents something that's happened

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emotionally.

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That represents something that's happened emotionally.

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Do they get anything in their body as well, or does it

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generally just come up in the mouth?

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Do you see those correlations?

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Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, so people will.

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Will I mean, not everyone has their emotional or metaphysical

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responses as mouth symptoms.

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So a lot of people will you know, you'll get the gut

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problems, you'll get the skin problems.

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You'll, you know, you'll get the back problems.

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It plays out the whole body's all a big emotional field,

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essentially energetic field.

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But what I have observed is that the people who do tend to get

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the significant and particularly chronic issues with oral health

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, that the underlying metaphysical influence will be

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something to do with silences, secrets or suppressed emotions,

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the three s's.

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And it's because, well, my theory is because you know, we

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would, in a healthy circumstance , we would express ourselves

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through our mouth, through speech, right, and when we don't

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, the energy gets stuck in our mouth, it's like it builds up

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behind a dam of our lips not being open when we don't use our

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voice or speak our authentic truth or express our anger or

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grief or whatever it is.

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And then, for those of us who have the teeth problems, that's

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what I look for and it's almost inevitable it'll be a secret, a

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silence or a suppressed emotion or some combination of it.

00:24:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, um, what was I gonna say?

00:24:34
Oh, so many things.

00:24:38
Ah, so, when you've, so you've got this amazing, these amazing

00:24:43
charts that you've uh designed and that, uh, people can

00:24:47
download off of your website, which we'll put all the links

00:24:50
with that, and so I've got one of them open at the moment and

00:24:53
it's like your emotional associations and you've created

00:24:59
archetypes around those, right, the representations of these

00:25:03
archetypes.

00:25:04
So was this all you've talked about?

00:25:07
The meridians?

00:25:08
That's what I was going to ask.

00:25:09
Like, the meridians are attached to the body as well,

00:25:11
right?

00:25:12
Then they go right through that .

00:25:14
It's quite complex.

00:25:15
But so we've got the meridians, so they kind of correlate with

00:25:26
body parts, organs and that sort of thing, don't they?

00:25:30
And then the archetypes are kind of like that theme that

00:25:37
they could be affecting.

00:25:38
Is that right?

00:25:39
Speaker 2: well, not really yeah , that's sort of the the aspect

00:25:42
of your life.

00:25:44
Speaker 1: So so for example I wrote down.

00:25:47
Actually I looked at the top teeth because the top teeth were

00:25:50
the two teeth that when I was a little kid came out brown my

00:25:57
milk teeth and also that's one that I got broken.

00:26:01
And top teeth, fear and helplessness, deep exhaustion,

00:26:12
but also associated with the kidney and the bladder.

00:26:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, so those.

00:26:17
In traditional Chinese medicine each meridian has emotional

00:26:22
associations with that energy channel and they're named for

00:26:27
particular organs, but when it's important to not be too tied to

00:26:33
them, being a physical connection with the, the

00:26:36
physical, anatomical organ like you would find in a if you went

00:26:41
under surgery it's more of an energetic um, yeah, uh idea

00:26:46
represented by the organ.

00:26:47
So the kidney and bladder are associated with this kind of

00:26:51
grief and shyness and helplessness and so on.

00:26:54
So those those are meridian associations, the tooth

00:26:57
archetypes for those two top front teeth.

00:27:00
On the left it's the nurturer and that can very much represent

00:27:05
your relationship with your mother, particularly when you

00:27:07
were very small and infant, your relationship with your mother,

00:27:10
particularly when you were very small and infant, up to about

00:27:12
toddler years.

00:27:12
And on the right it's the leader and that can represent

00:27:14
your relationship with your father when you're very small,

00:27:17
in those infant years.

00:27:19
But I find that it's actually in real life.

00:27:24
It's not necessarily that literal like when you as, as the

00:27:30
symptoms that you had were when you were an infant, it probably

00:27:34
was quite literal for you we can talk about that in a second

00:27:37
but for you know, if you have problems with those front teeth

00:27:40
when you're an adult.

00:27:42
It may be, um, not so much to do with your relationship with

00:27:46
your actual birth parents or caregiver parents.

00:27:47
It could be to do with your relationship with your actual

00:27:48
birth parents or caregiver parents.

00:27:50
It could be to do with your relationship with someone who's

00:27:58
a leadership figure, or your own experience of being a leader or

00:28:01
being ambivalent about taking on leadership, your own

00:28:04
experience of being a nurturer or not, and so it's helpful to

00:28:12
be as broad as possible.

00:28:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that, and and obviously, uh, what

00:28:17
resonates for me might not resonate for you, and vice versa

00:28:20
.

00:28:20
So, like I could maybe say, if it was in my adult front teeth,

00:28:25
um, it could be about nurturing yourself as well.

00:28:27
Right, exactly, and yeah, and yeah, yeah, if you're not taking

00:28:32
care of yourself, then that could be a physical

00:28:35
manifestation of something there .

00:28:37
Yeah, right, interesting.

00:28:39
I can't remember what my question was.

00:28:42
Oh, we were talking about the meridians, so can you, would you

00:28:45
be able to?

00:28:46
Like?

00:28:46
I don't want to.

00:28:47
Let me have a look at my notes.

00:28:49
Okay, can you talk us through some of the archetypes?

00:28:57
Is that too much?

00:28:59
Speaker 2: of a thing.

00:29:00
Yeah, sure, so well, a general overview first is that these

00:29:04
front teeth, the incisors, both central and lateral incisors,

00:29:08
upper and lower, so the bottom four and the top four they they

00:29:12
do tend to represent, like your infancy, your childhood, the

00:29:16
early years of your life and the family environment that you

00:29:21
grew up and what you were learning from that environment

00:29:25
or from that family culture about how to be, about gender

00:29:32
and how to grow up, how to be a girl or a boy and how to grow up

00:29:35
and be a man or a woman.

00:29:36
And obviously that's not always a very straightforward thing

00:29:40
for lots of people.

00:29:41
So that can play out in those front teeth, as well as the

00:29:45
particular family dynamics and your own experiences.

00:29:50
Like you know, for me my family immigrated from Canada to New

00:29:56
Zealand when I was three years old, so it was a huge impact on

00:30:02
my whole life and played out in my mouth as well.

00:30:06
Excuse me, played out in my mouth as well, uh, excuse me.

00:30:14
Um, then, uh, the further back we go in the mouth, kind of the

00:30:16
older, uh, the the part of your life that's represented in.

00:30:19
But first of all, we, we have a little sidestep for the canines,

00:30:22
which are the um, the eye teeth or the my, cuspids, cuspids,

00:30:29
and those are about power dynamics.

00:30:33
Then the premolars are about sort of your teenage years and

00:30:39
establishing your identity and your preferences and all of

00:30:42
those kind of developmental tasks of adolescence sort of are

00:30:48
associated with those two teeth in each quadrant.

00:30:53
And then the molars I call them the adulting teeth.

00:30:57
So they'll often represent or embody challenges and

00:31:03
responsibilities around home and work and yourself as a parent,

00:31:11
yourself as a partner.

00:31:13
And then the wisdom teeth are sort of outliers, again in the

00:31:19
way that the canines are.

00:31:21
The wisdom teeth are about collective energies and

00:31:25
ancestral, like deep ancestral energies often will play out in

00:31:30
those wisdom teeth.

00:31:32
Speaker 1: So that's the overview.

00:31:35
Speaker 2: And then each individual tooth has its

00:31:37
archetype.

00:31:38
So we talked about the, the nurturer and the leader up here

00:31:41
on the front.

00:31:42
Well, the, the bottom two um opposing them are the uh dull

00:31:47
tooth on the left and the beast tooth on the right, and those

00:31:53
teeth kind of have quite a toddler kind of energy, like the

00:31:58
doll tooth of that toddler who's kind of shyly holding onto

00:32:01
their mother's leg and peeking around, and it's got a real kind

00:32:05
of people-pleasing, very good girl kind of energy to it, very

00:32:10
much wanting to keep yourself safe by being compliant and

00:32:14
obedient.

00:32:15
Those are dull energies, whereas the beast is that kind

00:32:19
of rambunctious, tantruming um uncivilized kind of uh,

00:32:26
boisterous, two or three year old energy.

00:32:29
And we both contain both of those, they're both in our mouth

00:32:32
, they're both qualities, that.

00:32:34
But you will have a more or less straightforward or not

00:32:38
relationship with those energies when you were that age when

00:32:43
those teeth, the baby teeth, were there and uh, and those um

00:32:51
life experiences and those emotional patterns that you

00:32:54
learned when you were little continue to play out through

00:32:57
your life and so they can play out in relation to these teeth,

00:33:01
though actually for most adults it tends not to be these teeth

00:33:05
or these bottom teeth that get the um, they're not teeth that

00:33:08
are particularly prone to decay so much as gum recession.

00:33:12
That's me, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:15
So this is like the most common place to get gum recession, and

00:33:19
gum recession metaphysically can represent feeling a lack of

00:33:26
support.

00:33:26
And so then we put those, the, the interpretation of the tooth

00:33:33
archetypes for that part of the mouth, together with the

00:33:36
interpretation of lacking support and you can start to

00:33:40
tell a little story about what that means, what it might mean

00:33:46
for understanding your past, and also what it might mean for

00:33:48
understanding your life, and also what it might mean for

00:33:49
understanding your life now and how you.

00:33:52
You know, if you are, for example, a people pleaser who

00:33:55
puts your own wants and needs so far in the background that you

00:33:58
barely even know what you want and need and so you don't um ask

00:34:03
for or even accept, let alone receive support, then that that

00:34:09
can be an area that's vulnerable .

00:34:12
That recession is like the embodiment of that emotional

00:34:16
pattern.

00:34:16
Wow, does it make sense?

00:34:18
Speaker 1: yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah.

00:34:21
How interesting.

00:34:22
And you have, you've created this hot, these archetypes for

00:34:28
every single tooth through your experiences, through your

00:34:30
studies.

00:34:32
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:34:32
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool, um, so that's the hat of this of

00:34:37
my book.

00:34:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would recommend it to anyone.

00:34:40
Like, even if you don't know if it's something that you believe

00:34:44
in or not, like it's definitely it's so easy to read.

00:34:49
And it's definitely it's so easy to read and it's like if

00:34:51
you've and if you've had tooth issues, right, like just go.

00:34:54
Oh, I wonder what you know the top tooth number 16 represents,

00:34:58
and you can kind of read and you can and you can make those

00:35:01
connections um once you have.

00:35:07
So you've kind of talked around some of those archetypes,

00:35:13
identifying how these things might be playing out in your

00:35:17
life or in the past and therefore playing out in your

00:35:20
mouth.

00:35:20
What do you then do to help people understand?

00:35:30
Speaker 2: heal.

00:35:30
Well, it's, you know it's different for everyone.

00:35:35
So, um, I like I say it's always a combination of the

00:35:39
physical support.

00:35:41
So they're looking at nutrition and oral hygiene and bite and

00:35:45
so on.

00:35:45
Oral posture, um, but on the metaphysical front, it might be

00:35:50
working with the inner child, or it might be working with your

00:35:52
ancestors, or it might be working with the inner child, or

00:35:54
it might be working with your ancestors or it might be working

00:35:56
with sound healing.

00:35:57
That's really a key part of my gum regeneration protocols,

00:36:03
because it is possible to stabilize and regrow receding

00:36:07
gums and even regrow from bone loss, and sound healing is a big

00:36:11
part of that.

00:36:12
Um, yeah, but you know it's kind of a storytelling approach

00:36:17
and so that's the um.

00:36:19
The theme that I wove through the book is trying to explain

00:36:23
how, and demonstrate how to use healing stories as a, as a um, a

00:36:31
container for for healing your yourself, your teeth and gums

00:36:37
from this metaphysical approach.

00:36:39
But it needs to be within, you know, you need to address the

00:36:43
physical needs of your teeth and gums as well.

00:36:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, um.

00:36:47
So what are some of the?

00:36:50
What are some of the two?

00:36:52
The most popular, popular, common uh, tooth and gum

00:36:55
symptoms that you, um support people with?

00:37:01
Speaker 2: um, well, I do a lot of work with people with

00:37:04
receding gums, um, particularly if it's extended to bone loss,

00:37:08
periodontitis and uh, all of that.

00:37:11
So I, yeah, I always get a little bit excited when someone

00:37:16
comes to me because they're really in trouble.

00:37:18
They've got their teeth, their gums have receded to the point

00:37:22
that their teeth are loose.

00:37:24
They're really at risk of losing their teeth, because it's

00:37:26
so thrilling when the protocols work and you can stabilize

00:37:32
those teeth and save them.

00:37:33
That's the best feeling in the world.

00:37:36
Um, uh, you know, I see a lot of people with tooth decay and

00:37:42
cavities, uh, people who are told that they need to either

00:37:47
have a root canal or an extraction, and that's kind of

00:37:50
the wake-up call.

00:37:52
They're like, no, I don't want to lose this tooth.

00:37:53
There must be another way to resolve this problem without

00:37:59
such an irreversible intervention.

00:38:01
And it's not always possible because by the time it's reached

00:38:05
that point, the physical structure of the tooth is often

00:38:08
very compromised, but not always Like.

00:38:11
Sometimes it is possible to save a tooth from a prescribed

00:38:17
root canal or extraction.

00:38:18
Speaker 1: So, yeah, wow, okay and okay.

00:38:27
So you've talked about the like um, tooth hygiene and that sort

00:38:35
of thing.

00:38:36
What's your?

00:38:38
I'm just uh, what's your experience with um?

00:38:42
I think I feel like I've read, either in your book or on your

00:38:45
website somewhere, about people being able to remineralize, or I

00:38:48
may have heard it being talked about somewhere else being able

00:38:51
to kind of remineralize and yes, you do have it here your teeth

00:38:56
and the enamel to like.

00:39:00
You know that you might go to the dentist and they say you

00:39:04
need to have a filling.

00:39:05
We can actually, can we reverse that?

00:39:10
Speaker 2: okay, sometimes yeah, particularly with smaller

00:39:12
fillings.

00:39:13
Yeah, with shallow fillings I mean cavities um where it hasn't

00:39:19
been filled yet.

00:39:20
Uh it, those small shallow cavities um will often reverse

00:39:26
themselves with only a little bit of help, sometimes no help

00:39:29
at all.

00:39:29
Our teeth kind of um uh create um cavities and then close them

00:39:36
up on this small shallow level quite rapidly quite a lot of the

00:39:42
time, and often it's tied to stress levels, to be honest,

00:39:47
because of the, the way the stress hormones cortisol and so

00:39:50
on actually affect the remineralization processes that

00:39:55
are ongoing all the time.

00:39:57
In a healthy system, those get interrupted by stress.

00:40:02
Speaker 1: So I think, uh, probably we're not really

00:40:06
educated very well on the actual structure of our tooth and what

00:40:09
it does.

00:40:09
Right, because we have the root , we know like we it's almost

00:40:13
like we're disconnected from them.

00:40:15
They're these, this really important thing, that can you

00:40:18
know?

00:40:18
Change the way we look and how we feel.

00:40:21
Um, but we've got blood flow going to our teeth, don't we?

00:40:28
Speaker 2: yes, yes and there's this whole chain of the teeth.

00:40:31
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:33
Speaker 1: It's like this well, the marrow, I guess it's pulp.

00:40:38
Speaker 2: So the inside the center of the tooth is pulp,

00:40:41
which is a mixture of blood and nerves and tubes carrying fluids

00:40:49
into the tooth and um, vitamins and so on get carried, so

00:40:56
they're coming up.

00:40:57
The root of the tooth extends down into the jaw and connects

00:41:02
with um, the tubules that run along the, the jaw, inside the

00:41:07
bone, and they they will suck up essentially the um, the fluids

00:41:12
that the tooth needs to be healthy.

00:41:14
So that's all in the soft, very alive kind of heart of the

00:41:19
tooth, which is called the pulp, and when, when a root canal is

00:41:22
done, that's what they're removing, they clean it out

00:41:24
making that clean.

00:41:25
They try and clean it out.

00:41:26
Um, then on the outside of the the root, but on the inside of

00:41:34
the of the root, outside of the pulp, on the inside of the

00:41:37
enamel is a layer called dentin which is a bit softer than

00:41:42
enamel, it's more like bones, so it's a bit kind of chalky and

00:41:47
that also has lots of tubules running through it.

00:41:50
And then on the top layer, or the outside layer, is the enamel

00:41:56
, which is the hardest substance in the body, the very, very

00:42:00
dense and um, and in a healthy body it's constantly renewing

00:42:07
itself.

00:42:07
It's very resilient.

00:42:08
The dentinal flow, those fluids going into the tooth, are

00:42:12
pushing out minerals that are like really restoring the

00:42:19
surface of the tooth as it's eroded through the day with

00:42:23
eating food and particularly sugar and acidic food,

00:42:27
carbohydrates and things, or just the bacteria in your mouth.

00:42:30
If you've got a lot of unhealthy kind of oral

00:42:34
microbiome that erodes the enamel, Well, if you've got good

00:42:38
dental flow, that'll rebuild the enamel just as fast.

00:42:42
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty amazing, isn't it?

00:42:44
Because I think that when we, you know well, our general

00:42:48
education is that it's all about what we put in and it's about

00:42:52
brushing and stuff, but in fact it's they heal from the inside

00:42:57
out, from the sounds of things yeah which is kind of reassuring

00:43:01
.

00:43:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah yeah um what?

00:43:08
Speaker 1: about the um like oral health in general, like you

00:43:14
talked about oral microbiome, and I'll tell you the dentist,

00:43:18
um, who I used to go to we moved so I'd gone to him for quite a

00:43:23
long time and I do have, uh, receding gums at the bottom and

00:43:27
he said, look, it's just something, you just need to come

00:43:29
and have your oral hygiene.

00:43:32
And I was like, what is it like ?

00:43:34
Because I never have any fillings like, and there's never

00:43:38
any problems but my gums.

00:43:39
And he's like, oh, you, you, basically it's either one or the

00:43:44
other.

00:43:44
People either have, um, weak gums or they have weak teeth

00:43:51
generally don't have both and he said it's just from breathing,

00:43:57
which I'm damned.

00:43:59
Then, because I breathe, yeah, yeah, I have, since, um, focused

00:44:06
on closing my mouth more because, um, because there's an

00:44:09
effect of, like, the exposure of you know more?

00:44:20
Speaker 2: tell us.

00:44:20
Tell us what I'm trying to say.

00:44:21
The oral microbiome is everyone's got about 50 or so

00:44:30
different kinds of bacteria living in our mouths, billions

00:44:33
of them in total, but about 50 different strains, and there'll

00:44:36
be a slightly different combination of strains.

00:44:39
So it's really it's unique, almost like a fingerprint, in

00:44:42
terms of what's the makeup of your oral microbiome.

00:44:46
It's established almost entirely at birth and then will

00:44:56
adjust, particularly in the first three or so years of life,

00:45:00
depending on the food and water that you're exposed to.

00:45:04
And you know, if anyone's kissing you on the mouth when

00:45:07
you're a little baby, then possibly you get exposed to

00:45:10
their oral microbiome through that.

00:45:11
Then we're much less likely to take on any new permanent

00:45:17
residents of our microbiome through later childhood and

00:45:22
adulthood, though we might.

00:45:24
Now what can happen is that of those 50 or so types of bacteria

00:45:32
there might be, there's eight strands in total in the world

00:45:36
that are like the problem children of the oral microbiome,

00:45:39
and most of us will only have like one or two of those problem

00:45:43
uh children in our oral microbiome, and most of the time

00:45:48
they're very quiet and well behaved because they're just one

00:45:51
of 50.

00:45:51
They're not dominant.

00:45:53
But if you're a mouth breather.

00:45:56
If you uh, eat a lot of sugar or um acidic foods or you uh,

00:46:05
you know, are very stressed out or one of the other possible

00:46:09
reasons that you can get out of balance, then one of those

00:46:13
problem children type of oral bacteria can become dominant.

00:46:17
And so if that is the type of oral bacteria that causes gum

00:46:22
disease, then that will be your downfall.

00:46:27
If it's the kind that causes decay, then that will be your

00:46:30
downfall.

00:46:31
Luckily, most people don't have both right dominating at the

00:46:38
same time, but some people do.

00:46:39
Unfortunately you can have it is possible to have both teeth

00:46:43
and gum problems.

00:46:44
Speaker 1: Hooray and so if our microbiome in our mouth I think

00:46:50
you said we have it from birth and it pretty much doesn't

00:46:53
change and it's causing gum problems, is it?

00:47:01
Is it that, is it the microbiome, or is it the deep

00:47:08
emotional trauma?

00:47:10
Speaker 2: well it's.

00:47:10
It's a multiple factors.

00:47:13
Yeah, so they accumulate and particularly the older you get,

00:47:17
the more factors will be at play .

00:47:19
Yeah, so you'll have, you know, your life history of of

00:47:26
emotional patterns, of of family inheritance, of stress and

00:47:31
trauma and whatever else is your and your story that's unique to

00:47:35
you.

00:47:35
You'll have your particular oral microbiome and how

00:47:39
responsive it is to your lifestyle factors.

00:47:42
So if you, you know, are a mouth breather and and eat sugar

00:47:46
all the time, then that affects the, the um, the balance of the

00:47:51
particular oral microbiome that you got at birth and that might

00:47:56
change through your life as your lifestyle changes.

00:47:59
Then you're, like, you're brushing habits, so like your

00:48:03
gums can be really in your teeth to a lesser extent, really

00:48:09
sensitive or vulnerable to, like , brushing too hard with too

00:48:13
hard a bristle brush, or using an electric toothbrush

00:48:16
incorrectly, or using a really abrasive toothpaste, or you know

00:48:21
, any number of things we can put in our mouth.

00:48:24
Um, we, we get sick and our bodies stop being able to absorb

00:48:30
, uh, the nutrients we need.

00:48:33
Or we change our diet and we're not getting the nutrients we

00:48:35
need.

00:48:35
We, um, we clench our jaws, you know, we grind our teeth, we

00:48:43
get orthodontic work and drag those teeth out of position.

00:48:46
We have, uh, our wisdom teeth extracted or another tooth

00:48:52
extracted, you know, for orthodontic reasons or because

00:48:55
it's unhealthy and that upsets the whole environment and and

00:49:01
there's another factor, and so these accumulate over time and

00:49:05
particularly as you get older.

00:49:06
There's just more and more factors and eventually the just

00:49:09
system kind of tips over but to my mind, is always the energetic

00:49:16
, emotional, metaphysical underlying whatever physical

00:49:21
factors well, yeah, I think also from a from a lifestyle

00:49:26
behavior point of view.

00:49:28
Speaker 1: Often the choices we make in our lifestyle, like

00:49:33
mouth, breathing, stress, related right um, and eating bad

00:49:40
or unfavorable food let's not call it bad food eating

00:49:44
unfavorable foods can often be associated with an emotional

00:49:48
response to something or like not taking care of yourself.

00:49:52
So it kind of makes sense that that has a deeper um connection

00:49:57
with what's going on in your mouth as well.

00:49:58
And I guess, um, just like, we all have equilibrium equilibrium

00:50:05
in our bodies, in our lives but if you tip the balance one way

00:50:12
or the other because of different behaviors or

00:50:15
circumstances, then that can be the thing that can upset what's

00:50:21
going on.

00:50:21
We're getting close to the end of our hour.

00:50:27
There's a couple of other things, if you're okay to answer

00:50:32
.

00:50:32
You mentioned that you.

00:50:35
It sounds kind of cruel, but not that you love it when people

00:50:39
come to you with really bad things.

00:50:46
Speaker 2: Because you know you can hit them.

00:50:49
Speaker 1: And the remineralizing.

00:50:52
I don't feel like I've said that word right once

00:50:56
remineralizing enamel, regrowing bone and regenerating tissue

00:51:04
and you don't promise to do those things, but you do offer

00:51:08
those things as a possibility, that you have seen those things

00:51:11
happen.

00:51:11
Are there any particular stories that stand out for you

00:51:13
that you would be those things happen?

00:51:14
Are there any particular stories that stand out for you

00:51:15
that you would be able to share with us?

00:51:19
Speaker 2: um well, this one I wrote about in um my book in the

00:51:27
book, yeah, which is actually, that's not really a

00:51:36
remineralization story.

00:51:42
I've seen a client come in with bone loss, you know, showing in

00:51:49
it.

00:51:49
They just had a CT scan and it showed, you know, severe bone

00:51:54
loss putting the stability of this particular tooth at risk.

00:51:58
And we, you know, did the energetic work on and

00:52:04
understanding the sort of emotional origin story of this

00:52:10
tooth and did the work with the sound healing, worked on

00:52:14
nutrition, worked on um oral hygiene practices and, you know,

00:52:19
layered in all of that support.

00:52:21
And then a few months later she went back and she um saw the

00:52:26
periodontist again and got another ct scan and the scan

00:52:31
showed that the bone density had increased and that was one of

00:52:36
the most tangible kind of proofs of this work.

00:52:40
Yeah, it was very exciting.

00:52:41
And then that tooth was, you know, really stable and and she

00:52:44
was able to keep it.

00:52:45
You know, it wasn't it.

00:52:46
It was always going to be an area of vulnerability, but she

00:52:52
wasn't in that acute situation anymore yeah, great.

00:52:57
Speaker 1: I think that that's one thing that I would really

00:52:59
love our listeners to to understand.

00:53:02
Is that the the possibilities of there?

00:53:05
It's not as cut and dry as you go to the dentist.

00:53:10
If there's something wrong, you get your tooth pulled out or

00:53:13
you go through these.

00:53:14
You know specific procedures wisdom tooth extractions.

00:53:18
You know uh, gum um what do they call?

00:53:23
Yeah, gun grafts.

00:53:25
It's a whole uh catalog of horrific things they do again.

00:53:29
Yes, no wonder people are scared.

00:53:33
But it doesn't have to be that way, and in fact, our bodies are

00:53:38
quite incredible and our teeth aren't.

00:53:41
Well, our teeth are part of that, and just like we can

00:53:46
choose preferable foods and our body responds in kind, so does

00:53:51
our mouth Not.

00:53:52
Just don't think about just what you see on the surface, but

00:53:55
like what's going on in the inside.

00:53:57
I think it's just phenomenal, um, and so cool that you're

00:54:02
doing this.

00:54:02
Um, now, I saw that you have, and I'd I think it would be um

00:54:11
great to share this with the listeners if they're interested.

00:54:13
You have have some kind of call , don't you that you do?

00:54:16
Do you have like a?

00:54:19
Speaker 2: free, yeah, every week on Insight Timer, which is

00:54:22
a meditation app that you can download onto your phone for

00:54:25
free.

00:54:26
Okay, and so I do these live calls.

00:54:29
It's Tuesday morning, new Zealand time that I do them,

00:54:31
which is Monday evening for a lot of the world, and I call

00:54:37
them messages from your mouth and I'll essentially do like a

00:54:41
brief reading for anyone who comes up on the call and asks

00:54:46
where you know you describe your symptom and I check the tooth

00:54:51
archetypes, I might talk about meridians, I tune into my

00:54:54
intuition and uh, and we have a chat about what the underlying

00:55:00
story that that symptom with that tooth or gum area might be

00:55:03
telling.

00:55:04
So, yeah, anyone's welcome.

00:55:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, cool we'll put the.

00:55:09
We'll put the link I think is that the is the link for that on

00:55:12
your website.

00:55:12
We can, we can include yes, yeah , yeah great, perfect and

00:55:17
obviously the book, which is a really it's got some.

00:55:20
It has got some stories.

00:55:22
It's got your own story, it's got some stories of um clients

00:55:25
that you've worked with, but also a really great reference

00:55:27
book that you can kind of go to if you've got a toothache or

00:55:31
you've had something in the past and you're like I wonder if

00:55:33
that had anything to do with anything.

00:55:35
Um, you can kind of go in and have a look and, um, yeah, do

00:55:39
some digging around.

00:55:41
It's fascinating stuff and and um, yeah, brilliant.

00:55:44
I'm so glad that we got this uh conversation um together.

00:55:49
Thank you so much for joining me.

00:55:50
Is there anything that you would like to add as we head

00:55:55
towards the end of our session?

00:55:59
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having me on this.

00:56:01
It's been a wonderful, fun conversation to have and just

00:56:05
also I've got my second book coming out, probably by the time

00:56:08
this interview goes live.

00:56:10
Speaker 1: Oh great.

00:56:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called Calm and confident in the dental

00:56:13
chair, an adult workbook to relieve dental anxiety.

00:56:18
Speaker 1: Brilliant, so okay, we'll put all of our info in the

00:56:21
notes as well, um, and I believe we are celebrating the

00:56:26
one year anniversary of your first book yes, it came out a

00:56:30
year ago, last week, and it's done really well.

00:56:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do advertise it on Amazon, and so it's been a

00:56:37
really good way to sort of get in front of people that might

00:56:41
not stumble across my website.

00:56:43
I don't do any social media to speak of, so there's Insight

00:56:48
Timer and there's the book.

00:56:49
That's the ways to find this there's a lot of free resources

00:56:52
on my website so anyone who's holistictoothfairycom you can go

00:56:57
.

00:56:57
There's like 60 or 70 different articles and and things you can

00:57:01
download and classes.

00:57:03
You can listen to meditations and all sorts so brilliant check

00:57:06
it out.

00:57:07
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

00:57:08
It's been really great to meet you.

00:57:09
I really appreciate your time um keep doing what you're doing

00:57:13
I'm gonna get the next book.

00:57:14
Yeah, I will.

00:57:16
Okay, bye.