Patty Sage: Unleash Your Inner Strength & Transform Your Self Expression!

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Speaker 1: Hello, it's Nadine here, and I'm here with this

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week's episode of Life, Health and the Universe.

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And today all of my guests are special, but this one's got a

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little special place in my heart .

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Well, a big special place in my heart.

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I'm joined by Patti Sage.

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Hi, Patti.

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Speaker 2: Hello, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be here oh yeah, I'm really excited

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to have you here again.

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Patty is dialing in from canada .

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Um, a little intro.

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You're a reiki healer, a cellist, a mom of two babes.

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You're uh, nothing's changed in your crossfit world apart from

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you're becoming even more of a badass, and the one very special

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thing we've done together so far is that you helped me to

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birth the podcast.

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So you were my very first guest , and here we are, two years on.

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I messaged you a couple of months ago and said will you be

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a guest again?

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And you were like what will we talk about?

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So all will be revealed.

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I found a topic, she found it on me.

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The big reveal on the topic Let me hand over to you and tell us

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a little bit about you.

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I've just realized I've got my.

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I haven't got my headphones plugged in.

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It doesn't make any difference.

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There it is, it's more for the feedback.

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So there you go.

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Hopefully we won't get feedback .

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Speaker 2: Oh, fantastic.

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No, it's beautiful, you sound great and thank you so much for

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having me.

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Dear friend, it's nice to be back.

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It's been amazing to watch your trajectory as well over the

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last two years.

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It's hard to believe that was our first podcast and um, you

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know you're helping a lot of people out there with what you

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have to share and the people you bring on, so thank you.

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So what was the question?

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Speaker 1: well, let let's have a recap on, like the things that

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we talked about in the first and our last, our last and our

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first podcast, the last podcast that we did together, the first

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ever for Life, health and the Universe.

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We talked about CrossFit, motherhood and spiritual healing

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, and we've both been watching each other on insta and we stay

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in contact.

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You always send me beautiful birthday messages, which I love.

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They big, send big, give me big smiles.

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Um, we talked about all of those things, but things change,

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evolve, grow and, as we do so, what's been happening?

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Let's just have a bit of a catch-up.

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Crossfit, yeah, what's going on there?

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Speaker 2: it looks like you're going from strength to strength

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I, I guess it's just been chipping away at it and now

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getting into the competitive space.

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I mean, there's so much to be learned from in there and I

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still rank as the anchor queen when it comes to individual

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comps like someone's got to do it.

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But you know what it's all about going and showing up and

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seeing what you can do, and there's a mutual respect in that

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realm of everyone who's just grinding it out beside you,

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doing their best, rep for rep, and there's a, there's an

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understanding there.

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You know of the discipline, of the grit, the mental game, the

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tenacity, the challenge, uh, physical struggle, and we're all

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in it together really, um, so that's been such a great teacher

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.

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And to learn about where, where you can show up and where you

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can't fake it, um, there's no hiding in a comp, right?

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So not that I've ever had to, but it does reveal your

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weaknesses and areas of improvement and all you got to

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do is just lean in and do your best, which I think is the whole

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metaphor for show up, lean in, do your best, get out of your

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head, be present and breathe.

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That's our podcast.

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Yeah, yeah, they're the hot tips for today listening

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everybody?

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Speaker 1: um, doing it with other people makes a massive

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difference, doesn't it like that ?

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Um, they carry you along, they help you get out of your own

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head.

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You just focus on doing what you're doing.

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It's definitely a different experience when you're doing it

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on your own.

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I do it on my own mostly now, and I just kind of dabble.

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I don't do half as much as I used to do and I'm kind of like

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just get in there, do what you can do, like you're still doing,

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all right, but the mental chatter is different, like

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there's a whole bunch of internal negotiation that goes

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on.

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Will I scale?

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No, don't be silly, you don't need to scale.

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Just see how you feel.

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Like that's all the shit that goes on in my head, which, yeah,

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it's different when you're doing it with a group of people

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and, yeah, it's different when, you're doing it with a group of

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people and yeah it's interesting .

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Speaker 2: You're held accountable in a way you know.

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And two, there's a lot of compassion to be revealed in

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that.

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Everyone's in their own head you know, Everyone's nervous,

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everyone's sizing up, everyone's worried that they can't do it.

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You know, and there will always be somebody more advanced than

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you, someone stronger than you, someone better than you, despite

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how far you've come.

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And I think, like the aspect of grace to be given and to

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remember is that people who do CrossFit are a small subset of

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the population.

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It is inspiring and it is challenging and you just you get

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into this realm and in the peripherals, you know, you're

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seeing everybody else do CrossFit and sharing their games

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, posting on social media with the things that they're proud of

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, because, like never in a million years did we ever think

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that we could do this kind of stuff, much less in our you know

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, not at our peak right In your 30s, in your 40s, in our you

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know, not at our peak right In your thirties and your forties

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and your fifties.

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And it instantly reveals the comparison wound um which is the

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gift in all of it?

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Right, because, like you, when it becomes your world and all

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you see in your peripherals, it's just like consumption.

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We are responsible for the consumption of nutrition, what

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we put in our bodies, how much we hydrate, etc.

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But there's also a consumption from an emotional, mental and,

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if you have it, spiritual level, right, like, what are you

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looking at every day in your social feed?

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What are you re?

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Do you read the news?

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Do you not read the news?

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Um, what are you speaking about with people in your community?

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Right, and how are you speaking to yourself?

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Like it's all one ball of twine and that we just happen to

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access through this sport and in the end, again, we're going to,

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like, drive it back to, to the individual journey, and the

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whole metaphor for for this podcast, for this life that

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we're living, is to come back to you, right, to what kind of

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route do you want to act from?

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From lack, from comparison, from inadequacy, or from

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self-belief, from abundance, from positive self-talk, from

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grace, from understanding that a failed rep is part of the

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process to growth, right, and to checking your ego in the end.

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So it's, don't take yourself for granted, and whoever's

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listening to this.

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We just happen to speak in the realm of CrossFit because that's

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how we relate.

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But this is for anything, anything that you want to go for

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, anything you want to achieve and push yourself to beyond your

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comfort zone, right?

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Um, if that's sport, public speaking, writing, um a change

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in lifestyle, a change in how you speak to yourself, you know,

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all you need is just the willingness and the commitment

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to try something and see what happens.

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We went on a bit of a tangent there.

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Speaker 1: That's the beauty of these things.

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Yeah, yeah, that's going well, you're enjoying, yeah, yeah.

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So it's going well, you're enjoying it, you're crushing it

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actually, oh no, yeah, oh, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is going well.

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I learn every day.

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Speaker 1: And you feel like you're still making progress.

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I think that's one of the beautiful things about CrossFit.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's always something to strive for which

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can bring up some stuff.

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You talked about how we can perceive it.

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Do we perceive it as failure or growth?

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And I've just read a book, and you've possibly heard of it, the

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Kybalion, which is the seven hermetic principles, and it has,

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uh, one of the principles is about opposition.

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Well, they're all kind of like and they basically say that all

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things are the same, but there's just different degrees.

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They're just at different degrees.

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So hot and cold are the same thing, but they're just at

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different degrees, right, good and bad, happy and sad.

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Um, so you know, yeah, it's almost like they're on a

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continuum and so it's kind of like, yeah, your perception or

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your energy or your vibration can affect where on that

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continuum you are, and it can change from day to day.

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From what you're experiencing in your everyday life as well,

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like can be reflected in how you're feeling about what

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happens when you're in the gym.

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Yeah, maybe that was a little bit of a turn, absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's the relational aspect that you have

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to a movement, to to.

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Yeah, like you said, hot, cold, like because we're in a 3d

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reality, right, and these meat soups, right, these were huge,

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right, these we're here for having a human experience.

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It's eloquent, isn't it?

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um yes, and so we, we, we have to enter duality and

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understanding that you can't understand cold until you

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understand hot.

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It is only with, with our narratives and our judgment,

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that we make it either good or bad, unpleasant or pleasant.

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Right, and that's actually going to take us a lot into what

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we'll be talking about later with the practice I have when

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I'm being tattooed and so it's all.

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A teacher, teacher and I think, before we close on the CrossFit

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part, like I was in a comp earlier this year, a master's

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comp, and the last event of the day was the chipper and it was

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bar muscle-ups, was was part of it, I think 15, and I was so

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fatigued at that point and I I just figured out bar muscle ups

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two weeks before and just sought to chicken wing my way up to it

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as best as I could, and it was.

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I got two out of probably 25 attempts and it's at the

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beginning of the chipper.

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So here I am no rep, no rep, no rep, and that's the whole mental

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game in this is um, I could sit there because the time of the

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event is going to elapse, right, 12 minutes will elapse and

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something will happen.

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In that time I can show up, be in my head, be super anxious and

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nervous and judgmental, and every no rep I get, I can beat

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myself up.

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I can carry that energy into the next attempt, right?

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Or I can just keep trying and every rep is net new, right?

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That the last failed rep has no bearing on what's going to

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happen with this next rep, if I can frame it that way.

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And whether I sit there and pout and beat myself up and

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chide myself, um, or I go, okay, let's just try again, do your

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best.

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This time you're going to think about, you're going to isolate

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the hips.

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This time you're going to think about the kip.

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This time you're going to take a breath and a pause before you

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attempt and not rush into it.

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It's very difficult in a comp setting because like one second

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pause feels like five, you know, and all around me my other heat

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mates, my competitors, are now 30 to 40 reps ahead of me into

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other movements in the chipper.

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So that's a mental game as well, and really it was my relational

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aspect to a bar muscle-up.

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I tell you I had the biggest smile on my face the entire time

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.

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What am I going to do?

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You know, and people are cheering me on and part of it is

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a bit of a pressure Cause.

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I'm like, oh, like I I'm failing these reps and I'm

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letting these people down, or you know, they're doing for me

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what I would do for them if I were sitting in the audience,

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because we all know that this is hard, and I tried to really

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take a smile into every single rep and um, and I obviously

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didn't get them.

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I had the best time and here's the funny thing is that the

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equivalent you could have done one bar muscle up or did three

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chest to bars Right, but I can't do a chest to bar.

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I get fatigued and grippy, but I was failing so many of my bar

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muscle-ups but the chest was making contact.

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Speaker 1: So did they count.

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Speaker 2: Did they count?

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They did.

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Yeah, my judges went.

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You know what?

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That's a chest-to-bar.

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So really I was just doing very , very fancy chest-to-bar

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pull-ups with a lot of effort, lot of effort, um, and

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interestingly enough, you know, it was that attitude and that

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the relational aspect I had to a bar muscle up, which caught the

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attention of one of the other competitors who asked me to be

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in um a partner comp, um just recently, right, and this guy's

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a beast.

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Uh, he, he is a very um seasoned and um, we'll take this

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pause.

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We're going to edit this pause out, because I can't think of

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the word pauses are okay experienced, experienced

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crossfitter who's been competing for a long time.

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And I remember he came up and asked me and I just looked well,

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I mean he asked me over Instagram, but I mean I still

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looked behind my shoulder as if like me, like who is he talking

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to?

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You're asking me.

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And he said, yeah, you know, because I know he's partnered

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with stronger athletes in the past, way more proficient than I

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am, stronger than I am and he said, yeah, I've been with them,

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but you know, it was, it was your attitude and your mentality

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and your your just no quit.

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Um, I'd rather be in the trenches with that than with

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someone who's sulking and beating themselves up and

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carrying it from event to event.

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Um, you know.

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So I I think there's more than what we measure as success, as

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winning, and what truly is the connective beautiful, you know,

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um link between us as humans is just the experience, it's the

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value system, it's it's how we approach life and if that aligns

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and we did have the comp and we ended up making the podium- so

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it's my first podium yeah, anchor queen no more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah um, that was yeah, your experience as well.

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Like we, sometimes we go through those things right and

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well, we can often look back and sort of see, oh, there was the,

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there was the gold in that, there, in that experience.

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But the gold isn't always the gold that you think it's going

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to be right, you don't know.

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No, um, yeah, it's, it's.

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It's in hindsight that that, yeah, you don't, you didn't know

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that you were being seen for that person, but that was what

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shone through right.

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Speaker 2: I was just sitting there, you know, and my kids

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came to watch me for that event, and they just for 15 minutes

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like yeah, take a running start at the bar, okay.

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Well, there she goes again.

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You know she's no quitter, but that's just it.

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That's the gold, is the lesson?

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The gold is is the is the takeaway.

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And even after that, you know, I went up to my kids and a big

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part of me felt some shame and like I'd let my kids down and

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you know they're not.

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They had to sit there and watch mommy fail, rep after rep.

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But really the lesson was okay.

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Did mommy win?

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No, what did mommy do?

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Well, she kept trying.

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Okay, did mommy have, like you know, a pouty face on?

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Because, like my kids are very young right now and they're

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learning so much about their identities and themselves and

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what success looks like.

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And it's often in this, the societal box, right, and there's

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a bit of perfectionism that gets handed down generationally,

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like subconsciously, so to show them that failure is not

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failure and that I had a whole box of people cheering for me.

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Um, through the 15 minutes, you know, and therein lies the

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lesson, like we, just you just don't give up, you just do your

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best.

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You smile, you take a breath, you take a pause people will

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always be there to hold you and support you.

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Mm-hmm yeah, mm-hmm, yeah.

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And so it's okay, you know, it's okay to miss the ref, it's

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okay to fail.

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It's the experience we didn't give up.

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Right, I'm going to learn, I'm going to get stronger and I'll

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try again, you know.

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So we were going back to um the book, you read and

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understanding the aspects, and and what did you say?

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Speaker 1: it was a spectrum or the yeah like a degree, like the

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degree at which one is, yeah the Like.

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So, okay, hot and cold are the same thing, but they're just at

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different degrees.

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So, if you want to get, if you're hot, you want to get

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cooler.

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If you're cooler, you want to get warm, and so it's the same

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thing.

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Right, it's on the same continuum, but they're just

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different.

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Yeah, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 2: And in some instances they're actually the same

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vibration.

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Yeah, because if you look at, they say, anxiety and excitement

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are actually the exact same vibration.

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Right, it's just your relational, it's your narrative

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around it, it's your definition of what that vibration is and

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that's you know where we start to look into equanimity and and

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the work that we do, and I understand it through vipassana

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meditation.

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Right, where you're looking at sensations we have craving and

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aversion that we usually steer towards right.

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I want more of that.

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I don't want more of that.

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Right, pleasure and pain, hot and cold.

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Right, can we get to a spot where we're practicing

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equanimity in that it's neither good nor bad, it just is Right,

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right, hot if it becomes uncomfortable for someone and

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they start having an aversion to hot.

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Now they want to get cooler.

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Right, instead of judging it as a bad thing.

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Can, can we recognize hot for its qualities?

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For it's the feeling on its, on your skin, the feeling in your

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body, for how it radiates, um, the prickliness, prickliness of

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it, if there is any right and we just view those qualities as is

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and accept them fully and not resist them?

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Same as cold, there is still a prickliness on your skin, but it

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has now come through cold right .

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Can we appreciate and accept its crispness, its coolness,

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right and at some point it's numbing quality for what it is,

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and not judge it?

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Can you be with this?

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That is the whole lesson.

00:24:04
Can you be with this?

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That is the whole lesson.

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Can you be with your external circumstance, regardless?

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And when you get into that space of total acceptance and

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surrender, without trying to change it, without trying to

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control it, and make and have your narrative, you make it

00:24:21
something, then you are at peace , which brings us a segue really

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into what we wanted to talk about today, exactly.

00:24:32
Yeah, it's tattooing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which I've, I've had this, um, I have had

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this idea for a while.

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I've, I've thought about, um, uh, inviting a group or you know

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two or three guests on to talk about body art and our

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experiences and what, what kind of drew us to having these

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things done.

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Because I had a personal observation I've got a few

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tattoos and I'm I have to say, I'm a little bit envious of you

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because you keep getting them and I'm like it's just not the

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right time of you because you keep getting them and I'm like

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it's just not the right time, like I put that out there and

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when any one given point in time , I am either healing a crossfit

00:25:19
injury or a tattoo, or both.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we're right on point.

00:25:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, something I really observed about myself,

00:25:27
like when I had the tattoos that I've had.

00:25:30
I didn't really think about it.

00:25:32
It was like I just want to get tattoo right and like, well,

00:25:34
that's kind of where I was.

00:25:36
Then in hindsight I kind of see something a bit different.

00:25:40
But two and a half years ago I stopped drinking and I started

00:25:48
to observe, you know, in behavior, just in general,

00:25:50
behavior like like drinking is alcohol, it's like seeking a

00:25:59
shift from what I was currently feeling to do something else.

00:26:05
It's like, you know, seeking a shift by going to pick up your

00:26:08
phone when you, you know, you've been thinking about a whole

00:26:10
bunch of things and then you just want to, you just want to

00:26:13
shift away from it.

00:26:15
And I noticed in myself, um, I started thinking I want to have,

00:26:21
I want to get another tattoo, and I and it was almost like um,

00:26:25
seeking that shift right, it was like, um, yeah, and I didn't

00:26:33
go and get another tattoo, like I kind of sat with it and

00:26:35
thought about it and, you know, over a period of time, and just

00:26:38
didn't, didn't eventuate, um, but I just found that, that I

00:26:43
found that really interesting, like as a personal observation,

00:26:47
that it was like am I trying to remove myself from something?

00:26:52
What is it I'm seeking in the experience of having a tattoo?

00:26:56
Is it like I'm trying to change myself?

00:26:59
I'm trying to just move out of what I'm feeling right now?

00:27:03
So that was kind of my inspiration for wanting to find

00:27:10
out more and just hear from other others about what their

00:27:14
own experiences have been.

00:27:15
Is it to do with body image?

00:27:17
Yeah, is it to do with an initiation of some sort?

00:27:22
And you've been really like I love your, the posts that you

00:27:28
put on facebook and we can put a link if you like.

00:27:32
I mean, it's kind of a personal page, but if you are not,

00:27:37
facebook, instagram, um, about your experiences, the poetic

00:27:42
nature of your uh, sharing, and so yeah, I love it it's just got

00:27:55
so much beauty and you know, we can have this kind of

00:27:58
perception of we see someone with lots of tattoos and it can

00:28:02
feel, um well, it's that spectrum again, that that

00:28:07
continuum of aggressive beautiful.

00:28:09
Yeah, like that kind of it.

00:28:12
It can be quite full-on, but there's so much beauty in it and

00:28:16
I think that you really carry that beauty because of the way

00:28:18
that you speak about your experience thank you.

00:28:24
Speaker 2: oh well, thank you.

00:28:24
So much it and tattoo, the art of tattooing too, has there have

00:28:31
been so many association like societal associations over the

00:28:40
years that it has changed so much in context and it's more

00:28:44
socially acceptable now.

00:28:45
Right, and at the end of the day, is a body modification

00:28:53
right akin to a piercing, um, plastic surgery, anything that

00:29:02
we're doing to change our bodies to as an expression?

00:29:08
Okay, I think it's quite an iceberg because we're looking.

00:29:20
What I'm interested in looking at is the root of of why someone

00:29:26
would um entertain having body modification, like on a very

00:29:33
minuscule level, like you're saying, like it could.

00:29:36
It's just a change.

00:29:37
It's like a fun thing, right, it's a nose piercing, it's a

00:29:40
little tattoo.

00:29:40
It's some people just, you know , get tattoos.

00:29:43
To get tattoos, it's like, oh, that looked fun, that was on a

00:29:45
flesh seat and I liked it because I like dogs, you know,

00:29:48
and that's fine enough, right, I like butterflies, right, like

00:29:55
it could just be something to do , and now you have it and it's

00:29:58
an instant gratification in a way and something really cool.

00:30:03
It's like a haircut, right, you wake up you're like, oh care

00:30:07
now, right, um, and it can be from that spectrum, um to

00:30:16
something that is incredibly deep and meaningful and a fur

00:30:22
that, for me, anyways, what I can say to speak to, is like

00:30:28
another form of expression of my truth.

00:30:31
Um, I worked at a tattoo shop for a short amount of time,

00:30:40
which was one of the most beautiful experiences to

00:30:43
understand the tattoo industry and community and tattoo culture

00:30:47
.

00:30:47
Um, and also like I understand what it's like from an artist's

00:30:54
perspective, and everyone I was at the front desk and everyone

00:31:03
coming in through the door, you know, had their reasons for

00:31:05
getting a tattoo.

00:31:07
A lot of them, you know, have an emotional attachment to it,

00:31:12
right, whether it be a memoriam tattoo or they've survived

00:31:18
cancer, right?

00:31:22
Tattoos that are matching to signify a bond between two

00:31:25
people, tattoos to represent a very significant part of

00:31:30
somebody's journey or something that meant something to them.

00:31:33
So it becomes a way of getting to know someone without having

00:31:42
hear them speak.

00:31:42
You know, a visual representation of of what what's

00:31:49
important to them, of what's important to them, which I find

00:31:55
really beautiful, and I would say it can be a big part of

00:32:02
someone's healing process, because this is forever.

00:32:06
I mean, like now we have tattoo removal, but it is something

00:32:13
that you are committing to for yourself, whether it be sort of

00:32:20
fun and in the moment and just like a whatever thing to you

00:32:24
know, something that you feel strongly about, that moves you,

00:32:28
that captivates you, that represents you strongly about,

00:32:31
um, that moves you, that captivates you, that represents

00:32:32
you.

00:32:32
And then we also too you're right, get into the, the

00:32:35
cultural context, right, like, if you look at the Maori and um

00:32:58
Polynesians, right, like, those are rites of passage, so there's

00:33:00
, they're very sacred.

00:33:01
So the meaning of something and the free will that somebody has

00:33:03
to choose it, it really just comes from what motivates them.

00:33:04
And you know you were, you were alluding earlier to like, do I

00:33:10
just want to get this to have it ?

00:33:12
You know, is it a distraction in a way, or is it like a quick

00:33:17
fix or is it like a, a short term?

00:33:23
You know, thrill, yeah, right, yeah, cause it's very accessible

00:33:29
these days.

00:33:29
Like, I don't think there's a right or wrong about it.

00:33:42
Um, for me personally, I've not had that sort of experience.

00:33:44
Uh, the tattoos that are adorned on me have very deep

00:33:45
meaning and are all symbols of my journey and my value system

00:33:49
and I just really appreciate it as an art form.

00:33:54
It is unapologetic, it is in your face because you can't.

00:33:59
There's no hiding this now right.

00:34:02
Speaker 1: Are you going to run out?

00:34:06
Speaker 2: I am.

00:34:06
The next is the forehead the scalp, yeah, the scalp, where

00:34:14
we're gonna have to go?

00:34:17
Speaker 1: yeah, the scalp.

00:34:17
So do you have any um, just on a like a um more basic level, do

00:34:24
you have any limitations to where you will go?

00:34:26
Like you know, some people say that they won't go any further

00:34:29
than their collarbone, they won't tattoo their neck or hands

00:34:33
.

00:34:33
Do you have any limitations with that?

00:34:36
Do you have any rules or are you just like?

00:34:41
Speaker 2: The fact that I am this tattooed already is I've

00:34:44
passed many limitations.

00:34:46
Yes, I started with one sleeve and that was going to be it, and

00:34:51
I never thought I'd get to two.

00:34:52
And then I never thought I'd get to chest tattoos.

00:34:55
And then I never thought I'd get to my legs, you know

00:34:59
anything.

00:34:59
And then I did my legs.

00:35:01
I was like, okay, well, nothing past, you know, I can still

00:35:04
wear skirts or dresses and there'll be nothing there.

00:35:07
But now that's all gone.

00:35:08
So I, I would say no, what I have right now is still

00:35:20
coverable.

00:35:20
Like I haven't gone to hands or throat or neck quite yet, and

00:35:27
that would take some thinking.

00:35:29
But at at the same token, you just, you never know right, you

00:35:37
never know.

00:35:38
Never say never.

00:35:39
You never know.

00:35:41
I would assert like let life surprise you, let inspiration

00:35:51
take hold when it does.

00:35:52
And, and an attachment or a commitment or, you know, a

00:35:57
limitation in your words may not be applicable at that time.

00:36:03
Like that, I never, even on a greater span, I never thought

00:36:09
I'd be this tattooed, I never thought I'd be this strong and

00:36:12
fit and I never thought I'd be a healer.

00:36:14
Right, if I had let those limitations and that, that

00:36:18
self-talk and belief system you know, dictate where I am today,

00:36:26
instead of staying open to my experience and letting life

00:36:30
unfold and letting life put the things in front of me that it

00:36:34
has, I would not be this entity.

00:36:36
You know, we would not be speaking on podcasts.

00:36:39
It's just really something.

00:36:41
So, um, yeah, no, I do have two more projects planned, um,

00:36:48
tattoo wise, but who knows, I could be a fabulous old tattooed

00:36:55
bitch by the end of it.

00:36:56
Who knows?

00:36:56
Wait and see everybody.

00:37:00
Let's give us another two years for the next podcast, do you?

00:37:06
Speaker 1: yeah, they're just emblems yeah, and I would love

00:37:11
for you to um share, if you're open to it, some stories that

00:37:17
you have um.

00:37:18
But question I do have for you is um.

00:37:22
I know that I've spoken to some people that have been tattooed

00:37:27
and they they use the cream you know, like that, anise the

00:37:32
numbing cream, do you do that?

00:37:37
yes, and I don't think you can get yeah, you don't get a hold

00:37:39
of it super easily here and I've had these and and you've kind

00:37:45
of touched on this um, being in the moment with it and feeling

00:37:50
the, you know, experiencing it.

00:37:53
And I tried that when I was having my.

00:37:55
I've got a half sleeve and I had it done over three sessions

00:38:01
and I tried like I tried different things each time, but

00:38:04
when I tried actually being in it and focusing on the feelings

00:38:08
and stuff, I got really felt really sick, like I thought, oh

00:38:12
shit.

00:38:12
Like I thought, oh shit, I'm gonna vomit.

00:38:14
It was really intense and I got through it, but I actually

00:38:19
found when I was talking and I was there with distraction but

00:38:23
no creams or anything.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's such a great question and

00:38:29
it's been one that I've noticed come up a lot lately in today's

00:38:35
tattooing world and I mean, like it's gone so far.

00:38:39
Rappers, uh Drake, went, or something, had multiple artists

00:38:55
work on him while he was under anesthesia to do large scale

00:39:00
projects, right, and I think, like it is an individual choice.

00:39:07
Um, there, there, there's sort of that OG mentality.

00:39:12
It's like no, you got to earn it, right, you got to grit

00:39:15
through it.

00:39:16
You have to, you know, bite down on the leather strap, um,

00:39:20
to earn this tattoo.

00:39:21
And the thing is, and and there's a bit of, you know,

00:39:28
glory in it and there's a bit of glory in it and there's a bit

00:39:34
of that was the toughness behind getting a tattoo.

00:39:35
However, now there's a lot of tattoo artists out there that

00:39:40
just like advocate Like there's no shame in using a numbing

00:39:50
cream if you find this too intense, and that gets back to

00:39:54
like really honoring and listening to your body.

00:39:55
And you don't know where somebody's at with their pain

00:39:57
tolerance, their relational aspect to pain.

00:40:00
If they're tattooing an area where there was some trauma

00:40:04
because some people do get tattoos over self-harm scars you

00:40:09
know that they just want to transform and there are

00:40:13
different parts of the body that are a lot harder and more

00:40:16
sensitive and painful to tattoo than others.

00:40:19
And so who's to say, um, uh, I have gotten feedback from tattoo

00:40:27
artists, that, from tattoo artists that you know, it does

00:40:39
help the process.

00:40:39
Um, because now the patient number one is or not the patient

00:40:40
sorry, that's my clinician talk the the client number one is

00:40:46
not expressing, you know, duress , um, or having you know their

00:40:54
physiological reaction to pain, with sweating breath, picking up

00:40:58
, squirming, asking for breaks, that sort of thing, so they can

00:41:03
continue their work.

00:41:04
They're more comfortable, they're relaxed and open to

00:41:06
their process and present in that way, their process and

00:41:10
present in that way.

00:41:11
Also, too, it is very, as a tattoo artist, what I've heard

00:41:23
from my friends.

00:41:23
You know, there's a degree of I need to do my job and pull this

00:41:25
line on the skin, or, you know, shade in, and it's a very.

00:41:28
It's an art of precision, because you can't erase anything

00:41:32
, you know, once you've put it on the canvas, and being focused

00:41:38
, but also having empathy for the person on the table who is

00:41:43
expressing their pain, and a sense of obligation and almost

00:41:52
guilt.

00:41:52
That's just like oh, I'm so sorry, I'll try and move through

00:41:56
this faster or having to check in with them.

00:42:00
Like, do you want to continue?

00:42:01
We can take a pause.

00:42:03
Like the last thing I want for you is to be in this much pain.

00:42:07
Right, like it's a balance between the two people on the

00:42:11
table and it's very intimate, um , so if a numbing cream can help

00:42:18
both, I don't see why not.

00:42:21
Um for myself.

00:42:23
Personally, I've been through tattoos where I've not used

00:42:26
numbing cream and I've been through tattoos where I have,

00:42:29
because, um, um it's this, the places, um, the areas that I was

00:42:34
tattooing were a lot more sensitive.

00:42:37
They were creating spasms in me .

00:42:40
Um an emotional release as well .

00:42:42
You know, you get tattooing over organs and um right, ribs

00:42:48
and and areas that have referring sensation to other

00:42:53
areas.

00:42:53
Right, like I, in some aspect, I've paid my dues because of how

00:42:59
tattooed I am.

00:43:00
Like I have nothing to prove.

00:43:02
I I am on the table regardless.

00:43:07
Um creating something with my artist.

00:43:10
So it's listening to my body and honoring that without and

00:43:16
asking for what I need.

00:43:17
I think that's like a big thing too for everyone in the

00:43:21
audience, right, like asking for what you need.

00:43:24
It's it's empowering to be able to do so and to make your

00:43:31
choice.

00:43:31
So I think it's up to the person and what they're needing.

00:43:37
You know they could be under there's so many um um variables

00:43:43
as well.

00:43:44
They could be incredibly underslept because they were

00:43:47
stressing out about the tattoo the night before.

00:43:49
So they're going to be more sensitive.

00:43:50
Or if it's a woman, she could be in a part of her cycle, you

00:43:56
know where her body is a lot more sensitive and reactive to

00:44:04
discomfort and pain.

00:44:05
You know, somebody could be stressed out.

00:44:09
Who's to say so?

00:44:11
Speaker 1: yeah.

00:44:11
Yeah, and some people enjoy.

00:44:17
I've never been offered any kind of pain relief, like I

00:44:20
don't know if in Australia they actually do that.

00:44:23
I'm not sure.

00:44:24
Um, like it's kind of one of those things where some people,

00:44:30
some tattoo artists, might have it available, but it's kind of

00:44:31
like under the things where some people, some tattoo artists,

00:44:32
might have it available, but it's kind of like under the

00:44:33
table.

00:44:34
I don't know if that's changed yeah, since I've had a tattoo,

00:44:38
but like I would totally, I would totally use it if I was

00:44:42
gonna have it.

00:44:42
Speaker 2: There are.

00:44:43
There are numbing sprays.

00:44:44
There are numbing.

00:44:45
Oh, absolutely yes, it's if option, right, Some some do keep

00:44:50
it in the studio a numbing spray, so you do have to break

00:44:54
the skin surface in order for it to yes to get into the deeper

00:45:04
layers of that first, and then, they'll spray during the break

00:45:10
and then it will help.

00:45:12
Um, there are creams available in north america that are fda

00:45:16
approved and it's it's a prep, yeah uh, done by the client

00:45:23
before they come in.

00:45:24
Yeah, um, and they use that for the microblading and stuff for

00:45:28
cosmetic tattooing yeah, right, yeah so have you experienced, uh

00:45:34
like?

00:45:35
Speaker 1: I've uh known people who have had like actually a

00:45:41
post tattoo because of the extent of the tattoos they've

00:45:46
had and the um what?

00:45:47
The thing that made me think of it was when you said that

00:45:49
people go under completely and have like multiple, that your

00:45:53
body actually goes into some kind of shock from the process.

00:45:57
Have you had that experience, especially with like your big,

00:46:01
like the big one?

00:46:02
You've got big, complete full back tattoo, right Back piece?

00:46:08
Speaker 2: I have, yeah, because , like, whether you know you can

00:46:14
feel it or not, you are still putting your body under stress,

00:46:18
right, it has the wisdom to know that something's being, you

00:46:22
know, cut and there's a wound there, yeah, right.

00:46:29
And also, too, if you're using numbing cream, that will wear

00:46:42
off and then the post sensation will come in, right.

00:46:43
So it is a stressor that you're putting your body under and

00:46:45
it's going to have its response, and there's fatigue right from

00:46:49
lying on a table and hours of tattooing.

00:46:52
So I have been in those situations where, not complete

00:46:58
shock, but you know, I go into extreme shivering Even as, like,

00:47:04
my artist is wiping down everything and we're done and

00:47:07
we're about to bandage up the sensation of the, the coolness

00:47:12
of the spray and the antiseptic that they're putting on me, oh,

00:47:18
that's more, it's torture, right , and I'll shake violently, um,

00:47:23
and you know, my body's telling me that it just needs time to

00:47:27
recover and rest.

00:47:28
Speaker 1: At that point, yeah, you've touched, it has to catch

00:47:32
up at some point, yeah you.

00:47:35
So since we spoke two years ago, you've had, uh, lots of

00:47:40
adornments.

00:47:41
Um, it's uh and and like.

00:47:46
Obviously you've been through a personal journey with your

00:47:50
parenting relationships, like we talked about that it two years

00:47:54
ago, so there's been a whole bunch of healing.

00:47:55
Um, your career has changed, like there's lots of stuff.

00:48:01
We're always evolving, right.

00:48:03
Um is there and you've kind of touched on um, the fact that

00:48:10
their stories, your, your tattoos are like stories.

00:48:13
Is there anything would you share with us one example of

00:48:17
that?

00:48:17
Would you be open to doing that ?

00:48:20
Speaker 2: I would love to Thank you.

00:48:22
Yeah, so a lot of my healing work is tied to the divine

00:48:34
feminine and, um, there's so many beautiful aspects within it

00:48:40
that help us understand ourselves and peel back layers,

00:48:45
um, and to go into our darkness and and derive the wisdom there,

00:48:50
you know, to take responsibility for our wounds,

00:48:56
really our self-worth wounds, our not enough wounds, our too

00:49:03
much wounds, and in a very intuitive, flowing, creative but

00:49:22
real way.

00:49:23
And, um, almost every tattoo on my body is an homage to that.

00:49:24
Uh, hence all the florals you know, um, and there's, they're

00:49:26
powerful in that way because, you know, we tend to live in a

00:49:31
society where, when you get someplace, if you've achieved

00:49:36
something, if you've done your work to overcome pain, right, it

00:49:44
came with a lot of blood, sweat , tears, suffering, exhaustion,

00:49:51
etc.

00:49:51
And that's a big part of it.

00:49:53
For sure, that's what helps us grow and evolve and understand

00:49:56
just truly how strong we are.

00:49:58
But if there's the hard way, there is a gentle way, and I

00:50:02
learned that through divine feminine.

00:50:05
So much about that, understanding that all beings

00:50:10
have a feminine essence.

00:50:11
It's regardless of gender, sexuality, um, it's.

00:50:18
We have a masculine side and a feminine side that we tend to

00:50:22
not listen to as much right and that's that's receiving.

00:50:28
You know it's not doing.

00:50:30
If the masculine is doing, then the feminine is being, and when

00:50:35
we stop doing and we stop moving and stop producing and

00:50:42
you're forced to be, what's there, what is there for you to

00:50:48
sit with, breathe with, look at and oftentimes it's stuff that

00:50:53
we don't want to look at and can you really be with yourself and

00:51:02
love and accept all of it, the shadow, the light.

00:51:10
You know the good, the bad um, the parts of yourself you don't

00:51:14
like and the parts that you're learning to love.

00:51:16
So these tattoos are um, I have a lot of roses.

00:51:25
That is the ultimate sign of the of the feminine.

00:51:28
Um, perfect timing, you know.

00:51:32
Blow um beauty, love.

00:51:36
Uh, roses bloom when they're supposed to right.

00:51:44
It's all in the timing and the lesson there is to release

00:51:52
control of how we think something should be, when we

00:51:57
think something should happen.

00:51:59
Um, it is only we humans with our minds and um.

00:52:07
At my place of work, we don't call ourselves control freaks.

00:52:10
We're control enthusiasts, we're very enthusiastic.

00:52:14
It is only with our enthusiasm.

00:52:18
You know that we're like well, I got it.

00:52:21
This should have been here, and there's a lot of judgment in

00:52:24
that right Like should have been here, should have done this.

00:52:27
Should have been here and there's a lot of judgment in

00:52:28
that right Like.

00:52:28
Should have been here, should have done this, should happen in

00:52:30
this time.

00:52:30
I need to do, to do the rose is not like.

00:52:31
Okay, june 25th, that's my bloom date.

00:52:35
So here's the work back schedule.

00:52:37
And therefore the sun needs to be here at this angle for this

00:52:42
amount of time, and then the rain must come in at you know

00:52:46
this amount of time, and then the rain must come in at you

00:52:50
know this temperature for this long.

00:52:51
You know, and if I, somehow, if I don't meet this June 25

00:52:54
deadline, I'm failing somehow.

00:52:56
Right, and all the stressors, and then stuff comes out.

00:53:05
No, the rose opens and unfurls exactly when it's meant to and

00:53:07
it does so beautifully, with so much grace and strength, and

00:53:14
it's not forced, and yet it's worth the wait.

00:53:18
You know, we all grow where we're planted and we all unfurl

00:53:24
and room in our own time.

00:53:27
It's, it's only we humans, with our narratives and our shoulds,

00:53:33
that we impose a great deal of suffering.

00:53:37
Um, because we can't be with our circumstance, right, it's,

00:53:44
and that that suggests an aspect of failure, instead of being

00:53:51
with your process and really trusting the timing of

00:53:54
everything that's happening in your life, right?

00:53:56
Um, and that's so much about what divine feminine has taught

00:54:03
me.

00:54:03
Um, divine feminine has taught me, um, and uh.

00:54:16
I do have, however, my first masculine piece, and it's the

00:54:19
tiger on my thigh.

00:54:20
Um, or as I call it, my tiger, and he was a big boy and, you

00:54:28
know, for some reason felt very compelled to have a sign of the

00:54:35
masculine on the right side, which is the masculine side.

00:54:38
Left side is feminine as a protective aspect.

00:54:41
I don't know, let's just call to it it's, and who knows what

00:54:47
else will be adorned as I continue on this journey, with

00:54:51
everything that teaches me something every day.

00:54:52
All the people, places, circumstances, things.

00:54:56
It's all there to bring us back to ourselves in the end.

00:55:02
So I'm very in the end.

00:55:13
So I'm very fortunate and grateful to have artists who

00:55:16
know me very well now and know my journey, one in particular

00:55:17
she's tattooed about 80% of my tattoos with such great respect,

00:55:24
instinct, instinct, artistry and care.

00:55:28
Um, yeah, it would.

00:55:32
I'm just very fortunate to be able to express myself in this

00:55:35
way, um, with people who want to help me tell my story.

00:55:41
Speaker 1: Do you think that?

00:55:42
I heard, um, someone talking about a tattoo the other day and

00:55:46
they didn't have a whole bunch of tattoos, but someone asked

00:55:49
them about.

00:55:50
It was in an interview and someone asked him about a tattoo

00:55:52
that she had on her arm and what it symbolized, and he asked

00:55:57
a question.

00:55:58
The interviewer asked a question like did you have that

00:56:03
there to remind you of something you already knew or something?

00:56:08
He said something along those lines, almost like, almost like

00:56:13
that discovery is all is well.

00:56:16
It's that same kind of thing that we've talked about.

00:56:18
Returning back to yourself like you do, this does that make?

00:56:24
the essence of it.

00:56:25
Speaker 2: All right, yes yes, yeah, like that that you've

00:56:28
already lived it and so the tattoos kind of bring it in and

00:56:36
the answer was always there, you know the essence of you was

00:56:39
always there, the story of you was always there, the value

00:56:43
system of you was always there, um, and and it wasn't through

00:56:52
the tattoo as a reminder to drive you towards that, but as a

00:56:56
representation of what you already are yeah, uh, right,

00:57:01
yeah, as um, it's almost like I heard this the other day and I

00:57:08
was speaking with a beautiful friend about it, um,

00:57:11
michelangelo, you know.

00:57:13
They were asking him how did you create david through that

00:57:18
humongous piece of marble, right ?

00:57:21
How could you even conceptualize it?

00:57:23
And his answer was that, well, david was already there.

00:57:26
I just had to chip away all the layers outside of it.

00:57:30
Right?

00:57:30
That's the beauty in all of artistry that you are, as an

00:57:49
individual being on this planet, um, with your experiences, with

00:57:54
your, your own pain, with your own, your own understanding of

00:58:01
this human experience, um, and what you want to bring into this

00:58:06
world and what you're here to transcend by learning through it

00:58:09
, it's already there.

00:58:11
Actually, the answer was already there.

00:58:14
That's the beauty of it.

00:58:17
You need not go search out, it's within.

00:58:20
So I wonder if that's what that question was by that.

00:58:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a perfect question.

00:58:27
Was uh by that?

00:58:27
Yeah, like I asked her about?

00:58:29
Yeah, yeah, and I guess, like, once you have the, the pictures,

00:58:35
they serve as reminders, right?

00:58:37
So when you are in those moments where the 3d life might

00:58:43
be giving you, you know, a hard time, then, though, you've got

00:58:48
those reminders of actually who you are and and the beauty of

00:58:53
what lays within what lays within.

00:58:56
Speaker 2: It's a reclamation.

00:58:57
It's a reclamation you know it's a.

00:59:00
It's a reclamation of of who you were to begin with, before

00:59:05
you forgot, and a reclamation of your power, a reclamation of

00:59:12
your voice, of your own expression, and I mean it also

00:59:17
looks really cool.

00:59:18
It looks really fucking cool.

00:59:20
Yeah, it looks really fucking cool.

00:59:23
I wake up every morning and I go oh you, yeah, this is me.

00:59:28
How cool.

00:59:28
I wake up every morning and I go oh yeah, yeah, this is me,

00:59:31
I'm cool about it, I forgot.

00:59:35
You know like I get to look at art all day and it is an

00:59:40
unabashed statement and that takes courage too, right yeah?

00:59:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and, and that takes courage too right like

00:59:53
yeah, yeah, we are.

00:59:53
Well, we've hit.

00:59:54
We've hit our hour, and I'm conscious of the time a little

00:59:56
bit, simply because, speaking of adornments and body things, my

00:59:59
I'm taking my daughter to have her ears pierced today.

01:00:05
I know it's her initiation, but I would, um, before we do come

01:00:13
to a close, something that I'm curious about, because when I

01:00:18
see someone who's tattooed and I've got tattoos as well, so

01:00:21
people probably look at me and I don't even pay, like I don't

01:00:25
even realize that people, like someone said to me.

01:00:27
I was like, how are they going to?

01:00:29
They were organizing a meet up and I was like how are they

01:00:31
going to recognize me?

01:00:32
And they're like are you kidding?

01:00:33
Like you're fit, you've got gray hair and you've got tattoos

01:00:37
.

01:00:37
Like how are they going to miss you?

01:00:39
And I'm like, oh right, yeah, that's how other people see me.

01:00:50
When I see people with a lot of tattoos, I want to look, but

01:00:52
then I feel like maybe they don't want to be looked at.

01:00:53
How do you feel having uh?

01:00:55
you know so much body art.

01:00:56
How do you feel about that?

01:00:59
Do you mind people looking?

01:01:01
Does?

01:01:03
Sometimes you just want to tell them to f off or like do you

01:01:07
just kind of accept?

01:01:08
Speaker 2: that if I'm this tattooed people are gonna look

01:01:12
yeah, uh, you know, and the more tattooed I get um, the more in

01:01:18
the.

01:01:18
I do notice that I'm being noticed right um by young and

01:01:24
old alike, you know, and I think it is a responsibility, because

01:01:30
it's it's just like I didn't Get these to not have people

01:01:39
look at them.

01:01:40
Speaker 1: Right, it's, it's, it's, but you didn't necessarily

01:01:44
get them so that you know people did look.

01:01:48
Speaker 2: Yes, so that people would look at me yeah, exactly,

01:01:51
it's just it's your person like it's a personal yeah, yeah, um,

01:01:57
I personally I don't mind it.

01:01:59
I mean one.

01:02:02
I'm representing local artists and because I do get stopped a

01:02:06
lot and commented a lot on how high quality the work is.

01:02:11
And I think too because of the stigma of tattoos in the past,

01:02:17
like somehow you're a criminal or you're from the wrong side of

01:02:21
the tracks in Chinese culture.

01:02:25
So my parents are from Hong Kong and if you were tattooed it

01:02:30
was because you were a criminal and that was their marker of

01:02:34
how someone could recognize you and they would tattoo your last

01:02:38
name on you, right?

01:02:39
So there's like some stigma there and I find it to be an

01:02:47
interesting challenge of that stigma to to show that that's

01:02:56
actually not the truth, like you can be a very kind,

01:03:00
approachable, benevolent, compassionate, you know,

01:03:04
connective person or not, cause there are introverts.

01:03:08
I get tattoos too and they'd rather just like not be seen and

01:03:11
not have any of that.

01:03:12
But like, um, that it's just me .

01:03:20
You know this is Patty Sage.

01:03:22
You either accept it or you don't, you either look or you

01:03:25
don't.

01:03:25
And to show that you know there's beauty in all ways, um,

01:03:35
there's art in all ways and it's a great connective piece,

01:03:44
because someone who sees me would make a lot of assumptions,

01:03:48
perhaps, um, based on my on, on just being tattooed in general.

01:03:56
And you know, I'm also like a mother, I'm a, um, I'm a

01:04:09
musician, I'm a linguist.

01:04:10
You know I'm.

01:04:10
I have a universe, I have two university degrees.

01:04:12
I uh have you know the?

01:04:16
The?

01:04:16
The whole list goes on about what quote unquote success or

01:04:21
like accomplishment is, uh, how it's measured societally.

01:04:25
And you know someone that this tattooed possibly couldn't have

01:04:29
that right, like that.

01:04:30
I like challenging that aspect as well, that we can be whatever

01:04:35
we want, we can.

01:04:36
You can create whatever you want, you can express however

01:04:39
you want, like, don't apologize, you can.

01:04:42
You can embody every part of you, and that's the whole

01:04:47
reclamation.

01:04:48
Right, some parts of you will complement each other and some

01:04:53
parts of you will contrast against others within, right,

01:04:58
that's the whole beautiful messy experience that this being

01:05:02
human thing is.

01:05:03
And you know we're all going to die, die, that's the memento

01:05:09
mori.

01:05:10
Okay, we have this chance, hopefully, you know eight to ten

01:05:16
decades on this planet, so why not live a little?

01:05:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

01:05:24
Speaker 2: Go Do the thing.

01:05:26
Yeah, do the.

01:05:28
Thing.

01:05:47
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the ultimate way of, kind of, you

01:05:48
know, be drawing on that, well, potentially drawing on this, on

01:05:50
your masculine energy, to you know, grit your teeth and do the

01:05:52
hard thing, but you've, you've created this amazing beauty and

01:05:58
you've, you're carrying it with you.

01:06:00
You know this art on your body.

01:06:03
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like that, that beautiful, um, yeah,

01:06:07
play between the masculine and the feminine that's a marriage

01:06:11
for sure, and and I mean like even I, I know you have to go um

01:06:16
, but yeah, I was.

01:06:18
We meant I was gonna get into equanimity and and that

01:06:20
experience on the table outside of numbing cream that'll be the

01:06:24
next one podcast.

01:06:26
That'll be the next one.

01:06:27
Yeah, like it's.

01:06:28
The masculine is.

01:06:30
Yeah, like understanding, forming, flexing, you know,

01:06:36
through this process, yet you have to tap into your feminine,

01:06:40
which is release and surrender to this experience and um to

01:06:46
flow with your sensations, to to be with the pain, um to be with

01:06:52
the intensity of it, yet tap into that inner strength and

01:06:56
that sort of mental fortitude that reminds you that everything

01:07:00
is impermanent, which is the whole joke in all of this.

01:07:03
As, as, as as the Buddhist practitioner who uses that sort

01:07:10
of meditation on the table while she's getting tattooed, that

01:07:14
everything is impermanent, I'm getting permanent ink put on me.

01:07:17
So I don't know what the cosmic joke is in that, but there you

01:07:20
have it.

01:07:23
Speaker 1: So duality, duality.

01:07:24
Hot and cold, yeah, beautiful.

01:07:30
I love it.

01:07:31
That's a perfect uh little uh clothes, I think.

01:07:32
Thank you so much for joining us again.

01:07:34
Hopefully it won't be two years before we do it again let's

01:07:40
make this a little okay, a little shorter in between,

01:07:43
because I've had such a blast here, yeah, me too.

01:07:47
Thank you so much for having me .

01:07:48
Thank you, patty, such a pleasure, thank you everyone for

01:07:51
listening lots of love cheers, bye, lots of love.