What To Do After You Retire - Finding Purpose & Peace of Mind

What Would You Do All Day?

Whatever it is, you want to play mahjong, you want to, you know, um, you know, or transition into a role, let's say, um, you know, where you can mentor someone else or start a small business, or you know, however you want to spend your time, you know, really uh kind of encourage people to just think back to if I had nothing to do, how would I spend my time?

Why Retirement Needs More Than Money

So I wondered if you could kick us off by just sort of telling us how you got into your this type of work and like when you realized there was a need for it. Because it's kind of what do you call it niche?

Yes. Um the way that I kind of came into this was uh my background was as a wholesaler and basically uh working with financial advisors on identifying different solutions for their clients uh for retirement. And along the journey, you know, I kind of just psychology has always kind of been something near and dear to my heart and just understanding people and you know, trying to understand people's motivations and realizing that there's this whole financial side to retirement that you know everyone's very much aware of. But when you retire, and anytime you go through any significant life event, um, there's going to be a lot of mental and emotional stress and change that's gonna come into the picture as well. And just kind of found that people, while they spent you know, an inordinate amount of time planning for the financial portion, very little seemed to be focused on you know retiring from something into retiring to something. And, you know, so I just kind of stepped in and since it's uh kind of you know right alongside what I'm already doing um on the financial portion, but also kind of um you know, just asking the questions for folks and you know, seeing what they're um you know, what they've thought about, what they're looking for, what their desires are, um, you know, for their next act of life.

So would how much of that would you say is how much of what you do is now sort of more about planning for the future beyond the financials? Like how important is that in comparison to the to the money side of things?

I mean, it's a really good question. And I do think that they go hand in hand because one of the biggest stresses that people will find in retirement is the financial side. Um, you know, making sure that uh they're not going to run out of money, which is the number one concern um amongst retirees. So if there's a solid financial plan, and really what we're looking to do is kind of recreate that paycheck, right? So that it can look and feel a lot like what it was when you were working. Um so I I kind of weave the two together. Um, not that somebody, if somebody only wanted to talk about you know the emotional and psychological aspects of it, um, happy to talk about that as well. Um, but it does start with a strong financial foundation as well, and then um, you know, looking to create that lifestyle, right? Kind of the retirement of your dreams um and what that is, and uh trying to unmask how we can obtain that. Um I'm not sure if that answers the question.

Yeah, I think it does. Yeah, definitely. And I was wondering whether what type of people are you working with? Because um I don't know. Yeah, I just wonder wonder what type of people come to you because I just wonder I suppose. Are they more are they more kind of like people who are retiring out of like senior roles in a company? Or are they people like you know, me and my husband who are working for ourselves? Um all sorts.

Okay, to be honest with you. Um folks that have um, you know, teachers that have pensions, folks that are self-employed, uh, folks that are, you know, executives and uh high-income earners, um, all sorts of um, you know, different folks. And everyone kind of has the same um it's the same issues that are going to come up. It's just a little bit different weighting depending on the person, right? Because in some cases, if you have an abundance of um of wealth, then we're not really worried about running out of money. So we want to make sure that there's protection in place for things like long-term care events, or you know, really like how you're going to spend that time. Um it's it's actually pretty interesting because when you're somebody that was um, you know, a high earner or someone that, let's say the CEO of a company, uh, one of the interesting things is how much of your identity is wrapped up in that role. You know, you're used to people coming to you with questions and really feeling important on a daily basis. Um that can change afterwards. You know, no one's coming and asking your opinion on things or uh um, you know, so how we kind of re uh, you know, reconfigure uh what our purpose is and our identity and looking for things that are going to really just kind of fill us up, you know, kind of you know, make our hearts happy.

Identity Shifts After Senior Roles

I was really um kind of surprised when I was reading through um your bio and some of your information, excuse me, at the similarities that that um with the conversations that I'm having with women specifically uh in midlife and those questions of purpose and identity that come up for us, and that those things are actually uh reflected in that um yeah, that process of retirement. Um so there's obviously a connection there. That big word purpose that comes up for for so many people in both those circumstances. Um how do you guide someone when they are transitioning out of a job? Because you've got the yeah, you've got the money side of things, and you're kind of like I guess helping them make a plan, are they gonna have enough income ongoing once they aren't earning? But how how do you guide them when it comes to purpose and you know what they're gonna do with all of that time?

Finding Purpose Through Curiosity

Um it's really a good question, um, because it depends on the person. But um, I think the short answer is to ask a lot of questions, you know, to really kind of ask people to sit with it and to reflect on it. I'm a big meditator, so um, you know, I think if you can find space and silence, just to feel what motivates you and to try different things, because it doesn't have to be uh you're not picking up another job. So whatever it is, you want to play mahjong, you want to, you know, um, you know, or transition into a role, let's say, um, you know, where you can mentor someone else or start a small business or you know, however you want to spend your time, yeah, really kind of encourage people to just think back to if I had nothing to do, how would I spend my time? You know, assuming that you had unlimited resources, how would you spend it? You know, would you sit in front of a TV all day? Hopefully not. Um, you know, but really just trying to find out like what lights you up, you know, on the inside. Um, you know, if you didn't have to worry about how much um income was going to come from your job, wouldn't you have had the same job all along? Or is there something else that, you know, kind of motivated you a little bit more or uh lit you up a little bit more inside and try those things? You know, pick up an instrument. Just and it's okay to decide six hours into it, six years into it, that that wasn't the right thing for you. But it's really more about curiosity and exploration than having the answer.

When To Start Retirement Planning

How far in advance would you um suggest that someone should be planning this? Like before they retire? Or do people come to you after they've retired and go, I have no idea what to do with my life?

Both.

But yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we encourage people to you know think about that. I I wouldn't say as early as the financial piece. Um, but you know, I think within five years of your retirement um is really a good time to start trying things on. You know, if you can take a day off. How would you spend that day? You know, live it as much as you can and see how you like it. Try doing that a little bit more. Um, I really love the idea of shifting from a full-time role into a part-time role for folks so that they have time to kind of find that balance. And it's not just a light switch where it's on and it's off, right? You can kind of adjust the temperature a little bit, see how it is, see how it feels. Um, you know, I think I'd say a little bit, you know, maybe eight to ten years away from retirement is when you really start to shift that financial piece to make sure that your ducks are in a row because a lot of the financial elements change during that time. Um when you get five years out, I think really kind of investigating how you're going to spend that time, who you're gonna spend it with. Um, that's a big one, you know, for people, because you can end up, I think, particularly for men, with social isolation pretty easily. Um you know, women just I'm amazed by my wife that you know maintains, you know, a network of connectivity to her friends and to her peers and and everyone else. And I, you know, I've made like three friends since high school. So um, you know, for for men, I think it's more kind of putting themselves out there. Um and um yeah, yeah, but I would say about five years.

Okay.

Income Plans And Long-Term Care Risks

And with the financial piece, when you say um when you talk about that, what are the sort of the things when you said um having your ducks in a row, what are the some of the things that we would look out for or be planning for? I have to tell you, I'm when I got together with my husband, we've been together for 17 years now. He started talking about, I'm 52, so I was 35. He started talking about retiring. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm never retiring. Um, yeah, so it's totally out of my um realms of like thought processes. I'm really I'm interested in the emotional resilience and the planning and the future and purpose. And he's the he's the money man. But uh I think it would be good for me to understand more about what how it all works or what you would recommend.

Yeah, and it's probably a little bit different country to country. Yes, you know. So um, you know, here we have Social Security where um uh that is going to provide based on the amount that you've worked, how much you've made um an income stream uh for the rest of your life. Um in addition, you're probably gonna need a little bit more than that. And so to me, and and everyone does things, um, they have different models and ways of going about the spend down in retirement, right? Because you kind of go from accumulating assets into spending down your assets, and you have to make sure that those last for the rest of your life. So um for me, I like to have a portion of it guaranteed, right? Portion of it from Social Security, or if you're one of the few that do have a pension, then you never have to worry about running out of money because you're gonna have a paycheck coming in for the rest of your life. Most people don't have that. So, you know, we'll kind of take from that pool of assets and we might use annuities to create a guaranteed income stream, you know, that you can't outlive. Um, some people would prefer to just take a percentage of their assets and spend it each year. Um, it really depends on how much certainty. And I like to talk to the individual to say, what would you prefer? Right? If you would like to know that you're gonna have every month paycheck coming in that's gonna pay your bills, we can go this direction. If you're looking at that and saying, no, I don't want to commit any money to that, I just want to spend down my assets, then we'll go in a different direction. So um I'm very open to what people um are going to be comfortable with. And you know, my feeling is that I want you to have as much peace of mind in planning for retirement as possible. So um we're gonna look at the potential risks that come up. Honestly, health and long-term care is probably the biggest one. And see what um you know pieces we have in place. I don't know how how is it there as far as like nursing homes or having care? Do you have any idea of like what the cost is?

It's not cheap. I've heard of um people different circumstances. So there is a government um option, but the nursing homes, the quality of them apparently isn't great if if you go, if you know you can't afford to to go into a private nursing home. But what they do here, I think, is if you have an owner house and you need to go into a nursing home, you'd sell the house and then they would take a portion of the cost and that would go towards your expenses every week. Um, but it's not um a cheap option, I don't think.

Okay. It's consistent with what we have. Okay. Yeah. Similarly, um you can um either spend down your own assets on it um in order to qualify for um the government option, you also have to spend down your assets. You know, they'll let you, if there's a spouse, they'll let you keep your house and you know, a portion of it. But um, you know, for women in particular, if um I know it's much more balanced now, but you know, historically, if uh a woman wasn't working and it was, you know, the male was the breadwinner, it puts them in a vulnerable position, right? Because you've spent down all of the assets which are um the retirement assets are kind of in his name or in the name of the person that earned them. And you know, they'll spend those down first, and then you might be left with I want to say the numbers like $126,000, you know, plus the house, which doesn't sound like an insignificant amount of money, but if that's supposed to last you for the rest of your life, that doesn't go very far, does it? Yeah, yeah. Um, so we want to, you know, really encourage people to um put measures in place. You know, there are uh financial products that you can put into place which are gonna protect you. And the earlier you uh make that commitment, the better, right? Just because it's like life insurance. You can buy life insurance when you're 75. It's gonna cost you a lot more than it would when you're 45, though. So um, you know, we just want to get people thinking about um what they want their retirement lifestyle to look like, and then how we can best create that for them.

And I guess, gosh, it's a it's a long period of time, isn't it? Really? Like, how old is someone when they retire?

Um, I'd say on average, probably 67 is the most common age. That's when you can get what they call full social security, even though you can actually wait a couple more years and uh get a little bit more money. So yeah, you're looking at what hopefully 25, 30 years, you know, especially nowadays.

Yeah, yeah. And a big portion of that isn't necessarily going to be in ill health. People are living longer, people are living um healthily for longer i in a lot of circumstances. So the consideration is not only about that very late retirement, you know, retirement piece where um you might need um assistance with accommodation and um nursing home. Some people may never get there. I hope I never do. But there's that whole period between like between where you might want to be going on holiday and yeah, yeah, like traveling the world, that sort of thing. Yeah.

Yeah, it's um there's interesting if you look at the spending patterns in retirement, and they kind of break them

The First Five Years Must Be Safe

down into go-go, so like early in retirement when you're wanting to do all of the things and travel the world, you know, and then slow go, you know, we're kind of we're not going out to dinner as much, we're not buying quite as much. Um, and then, you know, no go. We just don't want to leave the house afterwards. Um, but instead of it just going, you know, straight down, it goes down, and then the cost of the healthcare um starts to rise. You know, so some people will front load, you know, a portion of their um, you know, retirement dollars. And um, you know, I think the most critical piece of advice that I can give to people is that the income that you're going to use for the first five years of your retirement has to be guaranteed. It can't be subject to market loss. Um statistically speaking, if there's a negative like marked shock in the first five years of retirement, your chances of running out of money increase by 40%.

Okay.

So does that mean like if you have your money in shares and that and that sort of thing?

Yeah.

Okay.

Right.

So how would you recommend that that money is uh guaranteed? Just by having it in the bank, saving it up?

Um that could be, yeah. I mean, we'll use um a portion of it. You can either put it into something like a we have like money market accounts um or stuff that has very, very, you know, little to no risk to it, um, you know, and use those dollars. Uh people will also, as I mentioned before, use the annuities to create the income stream. Um, you know, one of those ways, because otherwise you end up compounding losses, right? Like let's say you have a million dollars and the market goes down by 30%. Well, now you have $700,000. And let's say you took out $50,000. Well, now you have $650,000. And that money can't grow back once it's already spent, right? So, you know, uh in the years leading up to retirement, you just want to make sure that you have um you're looking at risk, you're looking at like your own risk profile and what you you are comfortable with. You know, you don't want to put the money under the mattress because you actually need to be in the market. Yeah. So it's just kind of striking that balance between the money that I'm going to use. I want to make sure that, you know, this is serving me in the best way possible. Um, and that there's not going to be any surprises um, you know, coming to me.

Yeah.

It just helps people to live a little bit more stress free.

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Are people rather than completely retiring are people changing the direction with how they work? Like when you talk about mentoring, um that just seems like something that would would still generate an income. So do you find that people in when they start to talk about um retiring and you go into purpose um and you know having something to do that you find that people are actually quite driven to just change direction and and look at working in a different way?

Yeah. Yeah, where it's more for themselves and you know they can take out some of those pieces. You'll see a lot of people doing consulting here where, you know, maybe they don't have the same benefits that they had before or make the same salary, but um it gets them out of the house a couple of days a week. They're getting to pass on their knowledge to someone else. They're getting to make a contribution without that same level of stress and you know, trying to climb the corporate ladder like you had before. Um, you also see a lot of people that are pivoting, kind of doing something else that is more fulfilling, right? Maybe they're, you know, selling things on Etsy or, you know, kind of small businesses on the side that can bring in some revenue. Um and they're much more passionate about those than they might have been, you know, having a boss and a career and everything like that. It seems like they're not averse to working. Um, and they're certainly not averse to bringing in income. But I think everyone wants to do it a little bit more on their own terms, you know, than they had in the past and feel better about it.

Do you feel uh how long have you been working in this industry?

About 20 years.

Okay. Have you seen changes in the way that people look at retirement? Um like are people working longer? Are they changing their perspective on what it looks like?

Yeah, people are definitely working longer than they have before. Um, I think part of it is just saving enough money to retire. You know, the the

Working Longer And Modern Ageing Realities

cost we'll talk about, you know, inflation and costs of goods and things like that. But the space where you see it more than anywhere is in healthcare. You know, so you see a lot of people that are working just to maintain, you know, having those health benefits.

Uh, right. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty big thing for folks. And people are living longer, you know. So you don't know how long that plan has to last you for. And even though we have a lot, modern medicine has been amazing and helping people to live longer. Well, one of the areas where you haven't seen a whole lot of uh technological advancement is with cognitive decline. You know, there used to be a statistic of if you go into a nursing home, uh, average stay is 2.3 years. Well, that's for somebody that has something that's going to kill them. But, you know, a lot of these cognitive things are going to require you to have care, but they're not necessarily going to be a death sentence. You know, and it it takes an enormous toll on the family, um, you know, on the financial expenses, on who's going to be providing that care. Um, you know, initially it's probably the spouse, but at a certain point, they're probably not able to do it. Um, you know, comparing to the past, families aren't necessarily as close geographically as they have been in the past, right? This idea of, you know, I buy a house in the same neighborhood as my parents and everything else. Well, people aren't moving out at the same age. They're not getting married at the same age or having kids at the same age. And oftentimes they're priced out of the um, you know, the towns that they grew up in. So they're kind of forced to relocate. So there's just a whole lot of um potential complications, you know, that that come uh later on. So yeah, I I think what what retirement was and what care is um is just very different than it was 40 years ago.

You know. Sounds pretty depressing. Yeah, exactly.

And it doesn't have to be, you know, I think this is this is the time where you have the freedom to pursue your passions.

Yeah.

You know, we we we I my gosh, um, you know, we lived our whole life on this treadmill. And now you can do whatever you want, you know.

Um have a backup plan for the for the final, for the finale.

Yeah, yeah. We we don't really have um you know as much control over that as we would like. But a lot of the decisions that we that we make and how we take care of ourselves um when we're younger does impact you know what we're gonna experience when we get older. So it is important. You know, I love that you guys are you know providing people with you know ways to get healthy.

Yes. And you know what? We've got some we've got some older adults in our groups as well. We've got uh 75-year-olds that are kicking butt in the gym. It's really cool.

It's amazing.

Yeah, it's really very good.

Yeah, it's gotta be tough. I mean, uh, what do they say after 60? Adding muscle is challenging.

It's ch it's more challenging, but it's possible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we've got lots of people proving that, which is really cool.

I love it. Do you find that people sorry I'm asking so many questions?

No, go for it.

Go for it.

Like the workouts that you have them doing, are

Fitness And Meditation For Resilience

they um you know lower impact versus like not really bodies or yoga-based?

No, no. So we have a background in CrossFit. My husband and I had a CrossFit gym in Sydney, and we don't do hardcore CrossFit with them, but we certainly have that kind of bias. And um I have I a lot of my groups are sort of midlife women or yeah, yeah, in their sort of late 30s, early 40s, early 50s. And and my husband does the older adults, he has some younger people as well.

But um I sometimes have to say to my midlife women, the oldies have been doing this so that they don't try and get away with not doing it. I'm like, well, so and so lifted that much, so you definitely can.

Shaming people into doing things, just showing them what's possible, and but yeah, it's it's kind of it's interesting seeing the different perspectives because you know we've got a lot of different things going on, and I think um, you know, there's negative self-talk and that sort of thing. Yeah, and then when you get to to a more mature age, you're like, I got nothing to lose, I got everything to gain from like putting the effort in. Yeah, so it's quite an interesting switch that you see in people.

Yeah, it's awesome. And I I love that you know, where you're empowering the women as well. I mean um you know, the idea, and I'll I'll see when I my my workouts are always interesting. Like I box some days, I I do yoga some days, I'll do Pilati some days, and you know, some weightlifting and stuff. Um and you know, to see that, I mean, the women in the the boxing gym, like just crushing it, yeah, you know, and and really feeling like empowered and it's not like it was before where you're just sitting on a cardio machine and you know um you know the little bands. It's like I'm like, wow, I I don't lift nearly that much as you do.

Yeah, it's uh it's um definitely it's still evolving, isn't it? Like we've seen the fitness industry change a lot over the last 20 years as well, but there's still a long way to go. There's still a lot of people that don't have um fitness in their lives in in some way, shape, or form. Um yeah, yeah.

It's so important, like the beyond the um how I look, right? The whole aesthetic part.

Yeah.

But you know, and I went a long time without working out. And you always just kind of felt like this underlying depression or something. You know, you didn't have those chemicals, the endorphins, the feeling of accomplishment, uh, you know, the feeling of, you know, my my muscles hurt a little bit here. Um and it is it's addictive and empowering. And, you know, I hope that seniors really um, you know, encourage them to kind of, you know, take some chances there, you know, even if you don't feel your best. Um it just little by little and showing up every day. Yeah. And yeah.

Do you talk to your um clients about that sort of thing as part of their full plan? About that well, obviously you've talked about health in relation to, you know, potential health risk. Um, but yeah, do you sort of encourage them to look at that health and lifestyle as part of their oh yeah. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think a lot of it because of because of the moods, right? You have so many changes that are going on. It makes you feel alive, it makes you feel young.

Yeah.

Um, you know, spending time uh, you know, in the gym, whatever it is that you know your body can handle, body could probably handle a little bit more. Um, I encourage them to um, you know, be as fit as we can, um, mentally fit, you know, as well. Um I encourage you know just about everyone to try some sort of you know meditation. Um, you don't have to be sitting there for 24 hours doing it, but if you can turn the brain off just for a couple of minutes and kind of take control of your mind, just knowing that you can control it, um, you know, is going to help you as things start to shift, you know, as that negative self-talk comes in, right? Your your mind is a muscle like anything else. And your thoughts can either control you or you can control them, you know, it's one or the other. Um so yeah, um, as we get older, uh, I would significantly encourage people to spend time, you know, doing their Sudoku puzzles or crosswords or whatever it is um that's gonna keep you short.

Do you when you um f someone first comes to you and says, Chris, I

How The Retirement Planning Process Works

I want to plan my retirement, what's the process that you go through? How do you start?

Yeah. Um, well, one, I ask them, you know, what do you want in retirement? You know, do you know what you want? How clear are you on what you want in retirement? Um once they have that idea, um, you know, we'll look at the financial piece, you know, kind of in tandem, um, you know, to see if you can identify what you're building towards, then it's a lot easier to put the pieces in place behind it. Um, you know, so we really kind of just ask a lot of questions on that, on on lifestyle, on, you know, what we are where we are at currently from a financial standpoint, right? And whether we need to make changes now to support that and identify some sort of a timeline of when they want to retire, you know, because if somebody has $50,000 and they're, you know, looking to put their retirement in place next week, probably got some problems there. So um in initial consultation, we're really trying to understand the current picture, right? Then we want to identify the picture of you know where we want it to be. And then you know, we figure out the path from one to the next.

And when you're doing that, do you is it like like how many how many sessions do you do with someone? You have like an initial consultation, you get to you gather all of the information, and then I would assume you go and you advise like these are the things that you might want to do. Like, how long is that whole process? And do you how much do you guide them through? Or is it like, okay, I get the information, here's your plan, see you later.

No, I like to slow play that a little bit more. You know, there are plenty of folks out there. Yeah, I would expect that you'll have one meeting and then you know, in the next one they're telling you what to do. Um, but it it probably three to four sessions, you know. It depends on the person, um, how much they've dug into it. Um, you know, sometimes they don't it takes a while, depending on how organized someone is, to really understand their their own financial picture, right? Um, both from what we have saved, what our liabilities are going forward, um, you know, and then probably by the the third session, we're talking about you know what proactive steps we can take um, you know, to achieve that. And yeah.

And how much do you guide guide them or teach them or encourage them, like with the with things like meditation and stillness? How how do you, if someone comes to you and they don't know that that's going to be part of the process, they think it is just going to be financial. How is it received and how do you manage that for someone who might not have ever done it before? Do you direct them to someone else? Do you teach them?

Yeah, I mean, I would I would um probably provide more resources than you know. I I've never really taught anybody to meditate.

So well, it's a hard thing to do, isn't it?

It yeah, hard and easy, I guess, at the same time. Um, but mostly because it's it's really trial and error, at least for me it was, where there's so many different ways of going about it. And, you know, finding a couple that work and just exploring because at different times, there's been um the first one that I had tried was transcendental meditation, and I it just wasn't for me. And then I came back to it about a year later, and it's like, oh, hey, this works, you know. So I'm I'm constantly just kind of you know rotating um different things. Um but I would say my assistance is really more in providing them with you know ideas on resources, helping to identify where they can go more than actually educating them um themselves. Um mostly because there's better people in place to do so than me.

Yeah.

Um and what sort of um feedback? I I mean, I don't, it's hard to say what kind of results because you know this is a long-term plan. But what what sort of feedback or what kind of response do you get um from the people that you're working with? Do you keep in contact with them?

Oh yeah.

Yeah, to see how they're going.

They almost become friendships in a way, you know, and and people that we're talking about, and it's not, you know, oh, I have a monthly appointment here. Um, you know, it's more just you know, reach outs and and talking. And um I'll get a lot of like, oh hey, I tried this, or hey, have you ever done this? Or what do you think about this? You know, sometimes it's text messages, emails or phone calls, or you know, things like that. Um, so yeah, we're definitely staying in touch. Um you know, more so on that, but on the financial side, we definitely try to keep it a little bit more regimented there, you know, when we're reaching out and things like that. Um but yeah, yeah, I think it's it's more of like a you know a dialogue um than anything else.

What uh what part of your job do you like best? Do you like the financial stuff? Do you like nerding out on that, or

Dreams, Stillness And Chris’s Own Plan

do you really get into the more you know, finding purpose and meaning?

It's really both. You know, I think we're all kind of as beings have different sides, you know. My analytical side likes doing things with numbers, and then you know, I have a more creative side that an artistic side as well. So um the parts that it's really just the expression on someone's face when they feel like they actually have an understanding and control over something that had so much uncertainty before is by far my favorite, you know, piece. Um, when they feel like, oh, this is attainable. This is something that this is a lifestyle. And it could be on the financial side, and also could be like, wow, I've actually found something that I just love doing. Um and you know, just seeing someone light up is you know, that that is the reward and that's the gift.

Do you do you recommend like people when they are going to retire, like think outside the box when it comes to like making a plan for those lifestyle shifts or you know, fulfilling a dream, or um do you do you really get them to sort of reach for the things that they have, you know, had in the past and uh wanted to, you know, have always wanted to, I don't know, whatever it might be. Do you encourage them to kind of really feel into that and and reach for it?

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if people are open to it, you know, I I ask people to close their eyes. You know, close your eyes, picture yourself at different times of life, right? And you can kind of put yourself there and go, what did I love doing when I was 10 years old? Hmm. What did I want to be when I grow up? You know, how did I spend my time? You know, I'm a very spiritual person, so you know, I'm also encouraging people to, you know, um find, you know, faith and and you know, understanding, um just connection, right, with the universe, with God, with um, you know, whomever um it is, and just finding those pockets of stillness in life. And if you can get still, the answer always comes out, you know, whatever it is. You'll just get that nudge to be like, I want to play the flute. And before you know it, you know, you could sit there and go, okay. It's just exploring something that's interesting to you, right? We're not making any major commitments.

How old are you, Chris? Do you mind me asking?

I am 47.

Okay. So how do you feel about your own retirement? What's your plan?

Um, I'm gonna be a really good retiree. Okay. What does that mean? I have so many different interests that can vary on a daily basis that I absolutely love exploring. And um it's really, you know, it's time. I also have, you know, four children, and I get to be, you know, very blessed to um, you know, get to spend time with them and help them to, you know, follow their dreams. And formulate their dreams. Yeah. Um, so I think I'll have quite a bit um of interest that is gonna keep me busy. You know, I'm hoping to be a decent golfer at some point in life, but um we'll see how if I'm actually willing to commit the time to that. Um, you know, and and to travel and to you know, just find you know, places to uh sit in stillness and feel the energy and explore. And um, you know, I I can get pretty passionate about a lot of things. So I'm looking forward to having that time.

And what age do you think that that will happen?

You know, I could see me being one of the people that um retires early and also never retires at the same time, you know, where um, you know, I may be working in some capacity, but truly um because it's purpose-driven and because I'm passionate about what I'm doing and enjoying it. And, you know, you don't necessarily have to be one person that takes care of everything, right? Where you can help people and and you know, work with people on um finding their ideal retirement. And maybe I'm not managing their money at that point, you know. Maybe I have someone that I'm referring that to. Um, you know, there's different ways to go about it. Um hoping that by mid to late 60s, um, you know, at least I'm doing things that I because I want to be doing them and not because I have to be doing them. That would be ideal.

Yeah. Yeah.

Do you feel like sorry? Well, we moved from Sydney seven

Semi-Retirement And Decision Fatigue

years ago. And so I kind of work part-time now compared to what we were doing then. We both work part-time, so we probably would consider ourselves semi-retired, but it's kind of interesting because you were talking about you know, finding purpose and what you're gonna do with your time, and and it's actually I found it quite difficult because you get used to being so you know, busy all the time, and so uh finding that sweet spot is like, well, actually, I I feel like I I'm quite driven by having a challenge or trying something new. Um, and I feel like now I've come to the point where I realize that I actually need something. Um and so yeah, we're sort of sem semi-retired, but I feel like again, like just just like you, where it's never gonna be like I'm not doing something, it's just yeah, discovering what that that thing is, um, and moving towards it.

Yeah. Most people need that daily structure, yeah, capacity. And we'll talk about like decision fatigue, right? Because a lot of your days kind of on autopilot when you're working, yes, who you're gonna see, where you're gonna eat and stuff. Um, and it becomes very overwhelming when it's like this sea of time, you know, that you're like, what do I do next? Yes, okay, now what?

Yeah, uh, yeah. And and yeah, just being comfortable with like not doing anything and just enjoying life. Yeah, that's interesting, it's an interesting experience.

Yeah, that is the gift, you know, and that's kind of what we're here what we were put here for, right? I mean, it is to be productive, but at the same time, if we never take the time to actually enjoy like the beauty that's been created around us, quite a bit.

Hey there, Rebel. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Midlife Rebel Podcast. If you'd

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