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Have you ever wondered how the air you breathe at home might be secretly affecting your health? Michael Rubino, the innovative mind behind Home Cleanse and author of "The Mold Medic," joins us to uncover the hidden dangers lurking in our indoor environments.
His insights follow the trail from his transformational experiences in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy to the personal battles that led him to champion the cause of clean air. Michael's crusade against indoor air pollution unfolds as we navigate through the entangled relationship between energy-efficient building practices, modern lifestyles, and the alarming rise in mold-related health issues.
As we continue our conversation with Michael, the plot thickens with the revelation of how climate change exacerbates these air quality challenges, creating a perilous cocktail of humidity, human pathogens, and household toxins that could be contributing to the surge in autoimmune diseases. His deep dive into the science of chronic inflammation and the body's autoimmune responses reveals an urgent need for a shift in how we approach our living spaces.
Michael's personal mission resonates throughout the episode, as he shares his evolution from a marketing graduate to an industry maverick, reshaping the landscape of mold remediation with his revolutionary cleaning protocols and shaking up the status quo.
In the crescendo of our discussion, we take a practical turn with Michael offering actionable strategies for homeowners and renters alike to take the reigns on their indoor air quality. Learn how his cutting-edge home testing kits can help to detect environmental dangers in living spaces, giving the power back to individuals to safeguard their health.
We wrap up with Michael's vision for a healthier world by 2030, cementing his commitment to empowering people through education and innovation. His upcoming book promises to be a beacon for those seeking to breathe easier, and through his story, we are reminded of the profound impact that taking control of our air can have on our overall well-being.
You can follow Michael on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/themichaelrubino/
Speaker 1: Hello, hello.
00:00:03
It's Nadine here, and I'm here with this week's episode of Life
00:00:07
, health and the Universe, and this week I'm joined by my guest
00:00:13
all the way from the US of A Michael Rubino.
00:00:16
Welcome, michael.
00:00:18
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much .
00:00:21
Speaker 1: It's been a kind of like we've been playing around
00:00:23
with our time zone so I have no idea what time it actually is
00:00:26
with you right now.
00:00:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're in the future.
00:00:31
Speaker 1: I'm in the future.
00:00:32
How cool is that.
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Speaker 2: It's 5pm, but a day earlier Okay cool.
00:00:37
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you , today has been okay so far.
00:00:42
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what tomorrow brings.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for telling me that it's kind of weird that
00:00:48
stuff isn't it All right?
00:00:48
let me do a quick intro of you, michael.
00:00:51
So you're the founder of Home Plans I'm reading off my
00:00:54
notebook A company dedicated to addressing the worldwide health
00:00:59
epidemic caused by poor air quality.
00:01:01
So that's what we're going to be talking about today.
00:01:03
So you have got a huge B-hag, a big, hairy, audacious goal.
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It is to improve the quality of life of 100 million people each
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year by 2030.
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That is some B-hag.
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Hats off to you.
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You're the author of the book the Mold Medic and you've been
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featured when you're getting your word out there on, so
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you've got some great accolades.
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You've been featured on Gwyneth Paltrow's podcast, the Goop
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podcast, vice TV, vogue, livestrong, to name a few, and
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now you're with us.
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So I'm super excited to find out all about you and what
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you've been doing and this massive mission you've got,
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because, as the podcast suggests , life, health and the universe
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we can kind of talk about everything, but health is so
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like a massive part of living, right, and there are so many
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layers, and when you guys contacted me to propose this
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call, it just reminds me of how many things and how many layers
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there are when it comes to being healthy.
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We might tick the exercise box.
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We might tick the eating well box, but there's so many things
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and this is one.
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So before we get stuck into talking about all of those
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things and before I ramble on any more, let me hand over to
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you.
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I'm just shutting the window.
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It's summer here and we've got cicadas.
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Do you get them where you are?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Every once in a while.
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Speaker 1: Really noisy.
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So, yeah, yeah, they were drowning me out.
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Okay, so that's my little intro .
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Welcome, Michael.
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Thank you so much for joining us.
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Tell us a little bit about all of the things.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you, and thank you for having me and
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for accepting this opportunity to have an amazing conversation
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today.
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But one thing I want to say before I even introduce myself
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here is you know, it just made me realize it is so much easier
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to be unhealthy than it is to be healthy.
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Huh.
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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yes.
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Speaker 2: Totally.
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It's crazy.
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I got into what I'm doing today about 12 years ago now and I
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was my father's been a restoration contractor since I'm
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five years old mainly fire restoration, but fires get put
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out with water and water is earth life source.
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So we really see a lot of microbial activity in that
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industry.
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But I never really thought much of it.
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You know air quality it was.
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You know this elusive thing.
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I mean, air is invisible.
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What are you talking about?
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There's no quality to it.
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And that was until Hurricane Sandy happened in the Northeast
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of the United States.
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And you know tens of thousands of homes get decimated or water
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damage situations and all of a sudden people started
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complaining about their health.
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And that was really an eye opener for me because it was the
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first time I realized wait a second, so our homes can make us
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sick.
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What is this air quality?
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You know what's going on here and I realized, wow, our homes
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can actually be gigantic Petri dishes that we live inside.
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And when I started to dive into the science of this, looking at
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different medical reports, laboratory reports of people's
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homes, I saw a pretty stark correlation of how people are
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feeling, based upon what their home is telling us medically and
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scientifically through lab data , and that was when I started to
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go on this you know 12 year journey shouting from the
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rooftops.
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Hey, I think one of the biggest missing links here to this
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health piece is air quality and the amount of stuff that comes
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into contact with us on a daily basis.
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It's something to the effect of like 100 million particles
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enter the body every day through the air, which is crazy to
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think about, and some of the stuff that we breathe in, like
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our own dead hair and skin cells , aka dust not nearly not really
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as big of a problem.
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Our bodies are used to it.
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But when we start talking about extreme levels of mold and
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bacteria and VOCs and all the things that we have in our homes
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that we don't think about, that's when things start to
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really get problematic.
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And after helping thousands of people get better by just fixing
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their air quality, I mean it has been a remarkable ride.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, did you, were you Okay?
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Did you have any health issues yourself that you have kind of
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attributed to this or not?
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Really.
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Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
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So last year I literally had to go on this entire detox program
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myself, because you know, 10 years of going inside people's
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homes and doing the best you can to protect yourself, but it's
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nothing's perfect I started to notice that I was gaining weight
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for no reason.
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I'm still not where I should be weight wise, but I've lost 40
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pounds this year, and so when I look at it from this perspective
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of why am I eating so healthy but gaining so much weight, like
00:06:50
you know, to gain, to gain as much weight as I gain in a
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course of a year the year prior, which was about 50 or 60 pounds
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, you would think I was eating nothing but cheeseburgers and
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pizza, right.
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But no, I'm eating nothing but like cauliflower, rice and
00:07:07
broccoli and, you know, six ounces of meat or fish, right.
00:07:13
And so it's really interesting to see how I just started going
00:07:17
in this direction.
00:07:18
I was tired all the time.
00:07:19
I had massive bags under my eyes, pretty much 24 seven.
00:07:23
I would get eight hours of sleep, but not feel like I
00:07:26
actually got any sleep, and so once I realized, wait a second,
00:07:31
I'm probably dealing with this exposure to environmental toxins
00:07:35
the way most of my clients do, from all of this built up
00:07:38
exposure, I went ahead and did pretty much the same detox
00:07:43
protocols most people do when they find themselves in that
00:07:45
situation, and within 30 days everything changed.
00:07:50
For me it was like a light switch, I would say.
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I started losing, you know, two , three pounds a week.
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Wow, I started feeling energized when I woke up.
00:08:03
You know, a lot transformed for me that continues to improve
00:08:09
today and, as a matter of fact, I think, probably at the top of
00:08:13
2024, because it's been about two years now since I did the
00:08:16
detox I probably do for another one because, you know, I think
00:08:21
many different variables exist but unfortunately, because I've
00:08:24
subdued myself to so much environmental exposure over the
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years, my detox pathways and my body may not be detoxing as well
00:08:33
as it used to Right, and so maybe it needs a little bit more
00:08:36
support.
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But I'll tell you, the sauna, sweating in the sauna was
00:08:40
probably one of the most life transforming things that I did
00:08:45
on this program, because, you know, just, I think sweating
00:08:50
this stuff out was it really made a massive difference and it
00:08:54
made things go faster.
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So that is kind of my, you know health story in a nutshell.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: That only further prove my theory of how important
00:09:03
this really is.
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Speaker 1: Yeah right, well, we're going to have a lot to
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talk about.
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So I live, I moved to, I'm on the East Coast of Australia.
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We moved four years ago to the Mid North Coast, which is very
00:09:19
humid, rains a lot, and a lot of people here complain of mold
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and damp and, interestingly, when we lived in Sydney, there
00:09:30
was certain we lived in an old Victorian house.
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This is my experience and I've kind of, you know, putting two
00:09:36
and two together and I don't know that I've 100% determined
00:09:40
that this is the cause, but I kind of think it is.
00:09:45
When we lived in Sydney, we were in an old Victorian house and
00:09:49
there was damp coming up from underneath, right, so some of
00:09:53
the walls started to show signs of damp and at certain times of
00:09:57
the year my eyes would get really red and puffy and, like
00:10:02
you could even feel in the house it felt kind of what, like the
00:10:06
air felt kind of moist, wet, and it always happened at the same
00:10:12
time of year, right, that this puffiness, and it was obviously
00:10:15
to do with the weather and the cold climate.
00:10:18
And then, when we moved up here, the same things started to
00:10:21
happen and even in the last couple of days we had some
00:10:27
really hot days and it was really humid and I woke up in
00:10:30
the morning and you mentioned the puffy eyes and I had really
00:10:35
puffy eyes and one thing that I find helps it is hopping in the
00:10:40
sauna and it's like I've and I'm kind of going I wonder whether
00:10:45
it's because of the rain and the damp and the high humidity and
00:10:48
like stuff in the in the air, and that's kind of like a small
00:10:53
thing, but I've, I really noticed it.
00:10:55
Yeah, and I think that because, like you say, you can't see it.
00:11:01
You know you can see mold on ceilings and walls and whatnot,
00:11:06
but you can't see the air and you don't know what you're
00:11:12
breathing in and what impact it's having on your body.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean, what's interesting about mold
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too is, you know, a lot of people don't realize it's
00:11:21
actually two different things.
00:11:23
It's a living organism and then it also creates spores, which
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are kind of like seeds, right, which are not themselves alive,
00:11:34
but those seeds is typically what enters our body when we're
00:11:38
taking breaths, and those seeds are about two to four microns in
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size.
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So that's very, very, very small, about 25 to 50 times
00:11:49
smaller than what the eye can actually see.
00:11:51
So, essentially, when you're breathing, this stuff in is
00:11:54
completely invisible, but yet you might see some stuff on the
00:11:58
ceiling or on the wall, right.
00:11:59
So it's, it's.
00:12:01
It's always interesting because I think a lot of people get
00:12:04
confused like well, how does that influence my health?
00:12:07
How does that have the potential to make me sick?
00:12:09
Same thing as bacteria, right.
00:12:11
Like we know, bacteria exists.
00:12:13
Yeah, we've, we've been taught we have to wash our hands, okay,
00:12:16
but no one realizes that bacteria actually gets airborne
00:12:21
and most of the bacteria that you come into contact with is
00:12:25
actually being inhaled.
00:12:27
So it's interesting, you know, to see, I think, how this
00:12:33
relates to our homes in our health, because as long as we're
00:12:37
not aware of it, we're not going to be taking action, we're
00:12:39
not going to be taking steps to do something about it.
00:12:41
Right, and I think that's one of the that's been.
00:12:44
One of the biggest problems for me is, like you know, you talk
00:12:47
to doctors and doctors, unless they're specialists and
00:12:51
environmentally acquired illness , they have no clue.
00:12:54
Right, and when we look at it from that perspective, if we're
00:12:59
going to doctors and this happens to so many people, right
00:13:02
, they go to doctors, they're looking for answers, they're not
00:13:05
feeling well, you know they.
00:13:07
Sometimes they get shifted around to 40, 50 different
00:13:11
doctors.
00:13:11
Finally, somebody says hey, have you ever thought of maybe
00:13:15
checking your environment?
00:13:16
And it's like boom, all of a sudden they test their
00:13:19
environment, their environment's not good and as soon as they
00:13:23
leave the environment, instantly they start feeling better.
00:13:27
And that's been one of the most remarkable things to see.
00:13:29
And it's like well, how do we not know more about this?
00:13:33
You know, why is this such?
00:13:35
This, this hidden, unknown thing and I think the reality of
00:13:38
it is is because we're so focused on exercise and food and
00:13:42
the quality of water that we drink.
00:13:44
Right, we just we've always thought that, you know, as long
00:13:48
as I'm exercising and I'm ingesting the right substances,
00:13:52
I'm going to be healthy, and it's no one's looking at the air
00:13:55
we breathe.
00:13:56
And it's crazy because when you think about the air we breathe
00:14:01
20 breaths per day it is enough air that we consume on a
00:14:07
daily basis to fill up a normal size swimming pool.
00:14:10
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:14:12
Speaker 2: Now, when you put it in that perspective, you are
00:14:14
definitely consuming more air than anything else, more air
00:14:18
than food, more air than water, more air than supplements.
00:14:21
And then thinking about how we can literally inhale 100 million
00:14:26
particles a day.
00:14:27
So that's crazy how much that can happen.
00:14:31
And these particles that are smaller than 10 microns in size
00:14:36
I mentioned the size of mold earlier.
00:14:38
It's less than 10.
00:14:39
The real health hazard there is that anything smaller than 10
00:14:43
microns can bypass our self-defense mechanisms and
00:14:46
enter the bloodstream.
00:14:47
So we get hit with a double whammy through air quality,
00:14:50
because it can affect our lungs and then, if it passes into the
00:14:53
bloodstream, now it's being ingested, so then it can affect
00:14:57
our gut, which can then affect our brain, and so it's actually
00:15:01
got a pretty severe risk.
00:15:03
And I think that's why.
00:15:05
What did we learn with COVID?
00:15:06
Right, air transmission was the greatest route of exposure.
00:15:09
It was the first time people really heard the word air
00:15:12
transmission before, typically.
00:15:14
So we're learning a lot as time goes on, but unfortunately I
00:15:19
feel like we're not learning fast enough and there's too many
00:15:22
people struggling out there across the globe, and I have
00:15:26
consults with people all over the world and when people come
00:15:31
to me and they're struggling.
00:15:33
I'm a father, I'm a husband, I have two small little ones.
00:15:37
I want to see people healthy and happy, not sick and
00:15:43
depressed, and unfortunately there's so much of that these
00:15:48
days that I just want to do the best that I can do to make the
00:15:53
world a better place.
00:15:55
Speaker 1: That's a pretty cool mission.
00:15:56
Ok, there was a whole bunch of things that I was having, these
00:16:05
questions, bing bing, bing, bing .
00:16:07
Where do I start?
00:16:09
So you've talked about.
00:16:12
No, I'm going to go back a step .
00:16:16
Actually, why do you think it's becoming more prevalent?
00:16:21
Is it because we are less healthy in general?
00:16:25
Is there more exposure?
00:16:28
Surely, mold has always been around, right, but there's that
00:16:33
movie, the Fabulous Fungi or whatever it is.
00:16:38
Speaker 2: Is it?
00:16:38
Speaker 1: Fabulous Fungi or.
00:16:41
Speaker 2: Fabulous Fungi so.
00:16:43
Speaker 1: They talk about mold, right, and they say that that
00:16:45
is a type of mold and it's been around and it serves a purpose.
00:16:49
It does, it does serve a purpose, so like is there more
00:16:53
of it, or are we just more sensitive to it?
00:16:59
Speaker 2: So good question.
00:17:01
There's certainly more of it, at least in North America,
00:17:05
because the EPA and HUD have done studies.
00:17:08
They did a pretty big study in 1994, another one in 2006,
00:17:13
another one in 2019.
00:17:14
And I'll tell you, from 1994 all the way to 2019, it's
00:17:18
getting worse.
00:17:18
It's getting more prevalent.
00:17:20
So the building practices that we have been pushing for, which
00:17:25
tie into energy efficiency, have been done in a way where we
00:17:31
didn't think about the people living inside these spaces.
00:17:34
Now, energy efficiency.
00:17:38
So let's go back to 1970s.
00:17:41
Richard Nixon is president of the United States.
00:17:43
We're dealing with a global energy crisis.
00:17:46
Okay, and it was a global energy crisis.
00:17:48
So what did everybody do?
00:17:50
Well, everybody said we have to figure out how to be more
00:17:52
efficient with energy.
00:17:53
This is pretty much a global recognition that we needed to
00:17:58
change.
00:17:58
So what did we do?
00:18:00
Well, we made changes.
00:18:02
Now, homes get built, and homes and buildings they get built
00:18:06
tighter today than they did 20, 30 years ago.
00:18:09
What does that do?
00:18:11
Well, let me tell you the human being is going to exhale a lot
00:18:17
of bacteria particles, a lot of virus particles.
00:18:20
Why?
00:18:21
Because, if you didn't know, this bacteria lives inside of
00:18:24
you.
00:18:24
So do viruses.
00:18:25
It's not until your immune system is weakened, that
00:18:28
something like a bacterial infection or a viral infection
00:18:31
would then take over.
00:18:32
Normally, your body has functions very well, living with
00:18:37
all these different types of bacteria and viruses living
00:18:39
inside of you at any given time.
00:18:41
Now, when we are constantly breathing these things out and
00:18:48
we have things like water damage that allow mold to grow, and we
00:18:52
have all these toxins that we introduce into our house via
00:18:55
household chemicals, modern friture formaldehyde, vocs.
00:19:01
We're now in a situation where our body is getting bombarded
00:19:05
with things that it has to consistently remove and the
00:19:08
kicker is there is no air exchange that's allowing fresh
00:19:14
air to come in.
00:19:15
And we're talking third grade science class here, where air
00:19:21
will dilute the amount of particles that would be present.
00:19:25
So fresh air is going to dilute .
00:19:27
So that means if we have fresh air, we're breathing in less
00:19:31
particles because we're diluting the amount of particles in the
00:19:34
air.
00:19:34
Well, if you live in a bubble and you have all this stuff
00:19:39
releasing into the bubble consistently, you're going to be
00:19:42
breathing in more and more stuff inside that bubble.
00:19:45
So then we have the modern HVAC system.
00:19:47
Well, the modern HVAC system huge in the United States.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: What is that?
00:19:53
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lovely system that essentially takes
00:19:57
air in conditions it then supplies it back out.
00:20:00
Okay, the lovely air conditioning system.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
00:20:04
Speaker 2: So the biggest issue with air conditioning systems is
00:20:07
they create condensation.
00:20:10
They're designed to remove moisture from the air condition.
00:20:13
It supply it back out and that's what gives us this
00:20:15
beautiful, comfortable 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
00:20:19
I'm not sure what the Celsius is, you'll have to forgive me
00:20:21
for that 21.
00:20:23
Speaker 1: Perfect.
00:20:24
Speaker 2: That's the ideal temperature, right, and so, in
00:20:27
hindsight, we didn't think about the filtration needs to prevent
00:20:31
mold and bacteria from growing in them.
00:20:33
And we've just gotten to this place where now we have all
00:20:38
these particles present.
00:20:39
None of us have good enough filters to block these tiny
00:20:42
particles from getting to the unit, and then it just starts
00:20:45
growing in the unit.
00:20:46
And did I mention the buildings were tighter?
00:20:49
So, as you can see, this is a perfect storm.
00:20:52
Yeah, so there's more.
00:20:53
It just bombard your body.
00:20:55
Speaker 1: If you're in buildings where there's lots of
00:20:57
people compacted into apartments and stuff as well, I guess like
00:21:02
there's going to be just more people producing more stuff.
00:21:06
Does the, do the particles in the air reproduce as well?
00:21:11
Like, do they become more?
00:21:13
So not the particles themselves ?
00:21:17
Speaker 2: But if you have organisms, they reproduce.
00:21:20
So if one of these spores or seeds gets to a wet area and has
00:21:28
the right resources to grow, that seed becomes an organism.
00:21:32
So in an HVAC system you might have one seed that gets in there
00:21:38
creates an organism.
00:21:39
That organism reproduces more and more seeds, the organism
00:21:44
colonizes and grows bigger and bigger and it's just reproducing
00:21:48
tons of particles that we'd be breathing in.
00:21:51
So that's kind of how this works.
00:21:54
So a leak that happens in somebody's home, not a big deal
00:21:58
at first, but if you don't fix that leak quickly and you allow
00:22:02
it to continue to happen, it's going to be a living Petri dish
00:22:07
inside your wall thereafter and it'll get.
00:22:10
It will reproduce at that point .
00:22:11
And that's how we start to see it.
00:22:14
Unfortunately, buildings are not designed to last forever.
00:22:18
They're not designed to keep water out forever.
00:22:21
Nothing lasts forever, unfortunately, and so they're
00:22:25
going to leak.
00:22:25
Statistically speaking, it's like one every 10 years.
00:22:27
So, unfortunately, if your house is built in 1980, let's
00:22:33
say you've got, probably at this point, four major leaks that
00:22:38
would have occurred and if they weren't fixed properly, they
00:22:43
could still be impacting you 40 years later.
00:22:45
And that's what we see all the time.
00:22:48
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, what about ?
00:22:51
I just wrote something down somewhere.
00:22:53
Does climate like are we seeing more rainfall?
00:22:59
Is that contributing to it or not?
00:23:02
Speaker 2: really, Well, we certainly are seeing more
00:23:08
frequency of storms and rainfall and all these things, and
00:23:11
obviously it depends on the climate and where you're located
00:23:14
.
00:23:14
But yeah, I mean, we are seeing historic devastation,
00:23:19
especially from the southeast through the northeast of the US.
00:23:23
Every fall, we expect to see all these different hurricanes
00:23:29
and they're getting more ferocious and worse, and even
00:23:32
the smaller ones are creating more damage.
00:23:34
So I think that definitely plays a part in it as well, but
00:23:40
I think for me it's.
00:23:42
We've got the perfect storm.
00:23:44
We've gone so far in this direction of energy efficiency
00:23:49
without putting countermeasures in place.
00:23:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
00:23:53
Speaker 2: And then you have more rainfall and more storms,
00:23:57
and then you've just got modern HVAC systems and how that
00:24:01
influences that.
00:24:02
And at the end of the day, our bodies can only handle so much.
00:24:06
And that's when we start to see an increase in chronic disease
00:24:11
and autoimmune disorders.
00:24:13
And look, if we take out Google right now and ask how sick are
00:24:19
we, you'll see, as a global population, we have never been
00:24:22
sicker than we are today.
00:24:23
We get increasingly sicker.
00:24:25
Over 60% of the global population deals with at least
00:24:29
one chronic condition.
00:24:30
40% of the global population multiple chronic conditions,
00:24:33
meaning two or more.
00:24:34
And how could that be if we are healthier and maybe healthier
00:24:42
is the wrong word how could that be if we are trying?
00:24:46
Speaker 1: harder than ever before to be healthier.
00:24:51
Speaker 2: We've got pelotons and this and that in our home
00:24:55
environments.
00:24:56
We have workout equipment.
00:24:57
We have never been fitter.
00:24:59
We've got more availability to food than ever.
00:25:03
We have everything's organic, even big, huge chain warehouse
00:25:10
Costco stores.
00:25:11
They have organic groceries.
00:25:13
I mean you literally have better selections than you've
00:25:17
ever had in your entire life to eat healthier.
00:25:20
And I know we're trying, you know, I know we're trying.
00:25:23
We have cleaner access to water .
00:25:25
I know we're doing everything we can, but when everything we
00:25:29
can isn't good enough, when is it time to wake up and say we're
00:25:33
looking in the wrong direction?
00:25:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, or there are other things at play.
00:25:36
Tell us about some of these.
00:25:39
So we talk about autoimmune disease, right, and you say that
00:25:42
it's on the rise, and can you tell us what?
00:25:49
Some examples of autoimmune disease, what are they and what
00:25:54
are some of the symptoms that people might?
00:25:57
Speaker 2: experience.
00:25:57
Yeah, so there are a plethora of autoimmune diseases.
00:26:01
Essentially, they're all each specific autoimmune disease, you
00:26:08
know, like eczema is one.
00:26:11
You can have eczema for a few days and that wouldn't be
00:26:15
considered an autoimmune disease .
00:26:17
But if you have chronic eczema, that would be an autoimmune
00:26:21
disease, right?
00:26:21
What's interesting about autoimmune diseases?
00:26:25
There are many of them.
00:26:26
The chronic fatigue syndrome can be considered another one,
00:26:31
right?
00:26:31
All of them are diseases which are not known what the cause is
00:26:41
and there is no cure.
00:26:43
So, essentially, when you develop an autoimmune disease,
00:26:48
it typically develops due to chronic inflammation.
00:26:51
You now are basically told by our medical system that this is
00:26:57
your new life, you live with this and here's how you manage
00:27:00
these symptoms.
00:27:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker 2: You know which?
00:27:02
To me it's like why aren't we asking ourselves what causes
00:27:06
this and diving into that?
00:27:08
But you know, sometimes it's just the way things work.
00:27:11
We don't know the answer, so we say you have to live with it.
00:27:15
All of these diseases, pick anyone rheumatoid arthritis,
00:27:21
sibo pick anyone and watch how they've all been increasing over
00:27:26
time and we're not asking enough, ferociously enough, why
00:27:32
that is.
00:27:33
Now, when you look at the science behind autoimmune
00:27:38
diseases, they pretty much all start in the same fashion.
00:27:41
Something happens that triggers this and they believe it's
00:27:45
genetics, genetic predispositions.
00:27:49
They believe that it could be environmental, right, so that
00:27:54
could be environmental.
00:27:55
Breathing in it could be environmental what you're eating
00:27:57
, diet, all of that kind of stuff.
00:27:59
And that is pretty much what they've figured out of what
00:28:04
could be the response to this.
00:28:05
But it's an immune response.
00:28:08
Your immune system is responding to something not well
00:28:14
in your body.
00:28:15
Speaker 1: And with autoimmune Amarra, in saying that what
00:28:19
happens with all of these kind of autoimmune disease is that
00:28:22
our body starts attacking itself so we become unable to fight
00:28:27
off infection or imbalances.
00:28:30
Is that what happens?
00:28:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that typically is what happens, because when
00:28:35
you're dealing with chronic inflammation, your body
00:28:37
naturally responds to that inflammation.
00:28:40
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like an overreaction to an
00:28:45
increased sensitivity to.
00:28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one of the best symptoms to explain this
00:28:56
whole response would be mass cell activation syndrome.
00:29:00
So that is literally when your body is in a hyperactive state
00:29:05
and you are fighting your own cells.
00:29:09
Your white blood cells are fighting its own cells because
00:29:14
it can't determine what is a foreign substance that should be
00:29:19
fought and the own cells that contain inside the body.
00:29:22
And what does this develop?
00:29:23
Chronic inflammation, and I think that's you know.
00:29:27
Obviously, there's different levels of chronic inflammation.
00:29:30
It can be acute chronic inflammation or it can be
00:29:33
extreme chronic inflammation.
00:29:34
The all these avenues, all these roads, they point back to
00:29:40
the same place it's chronic inflammation.
00:29:42
What causes chronic inflammation?
00:29:45
Well, certainly, breathing in things that are not good for
00:29:48
your health could absolutely cause chronic inflammation.
00:29:52
Right, we've seen that from chemicals, we've seen that from
00:29:55
particles, we're seeing it from mold, we've seen it from
00:29:58
bacteria.
00:29:59
You know, and it's interesting to me is because if you actually
00:30:05
start to piece the data together, it makes perfect sense
00:30:08
.
00:30:09
The problem is is that our medical communities across the
00:30:12
world they're not, they're not looking in this direction.
00:30:17
It's like we've all grown up in this civilization thinking how
00:30:21
could we possibly ever get sick from the quality of air?
00:30:25
I mean, look, everybody can Google right now air quality,
00:30:29
health.
00:30:30
You're going to see all kinds of news, news organizations BBC,
00:30:34
new York Times, all very reputable organizations showing
00:30:38
you different studies that exist on how air quality affects the
00:30:42
health.
00:30:42
The information's out there, but how many people know about
00:30:45
it?
00:30:45
And that's the problem, right?
00:30:47
And it's not just people, it's doctors too, the healthcare
00:30:51
professionals that we look up to when we're not feeling well.
00:30:54
For them to find and give us answers like the investigators
00:30:59
that we hope they are, but they're not, because they're not
00:31:02
getting educated on this either , just like the rest of us.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: That's really the problem the last resort.
00:31:08
Isn't it Digging deep enough to find this ultimate cause of
00:31:15
illness?
00:31:15
I read a book called Toxic, Neil Nathan.
00:31:21
Speaker 2: Neil Nathan.
00:31:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I apologize, I haven't read your book.
00:31:26
Speaker 2: That's okay, no problem at all.
00:31:28
Speaker 1: I guess, like what I'd just like to comment on is
00:31:32
an example of someone who, like he, shares some stories of
00:31:36
patients that he's had.
00:31:37
So he talks about the toxicity, just as you do, and how
00:31:41
exposure to things like mold can cause these terrible autoimmune
00:31:45
diseases that people think that they are, like they are
00:31:49
basically destined to live with right For the rest of their days
00:31:55
.
00:31:55
And there was, I recall there was this one woman I can't
00:31:59
remember what autoimmune disease she had.
00:32:02
She was quite a, you know, a high flying executive and she
00:32:07
started to get brain fog and feel really fatigued and, like
00:32:11
she literally got to a point where she could barely walk.
00:32:16
Like this is what happens to people.
00:32:20
And, just as you've mentioned, like she went, you know,
00:32:24
obviously went to doctors, she had to give up her job, she was
00:32:27
trying to find out what the cause was and eventually she
00:32:30
found out that it was because of some kind of exposure to toxic.
00:32:35
You know, I'm not sure if hers was mold, but it was definitely
00:32:39
an autoimmune disease.
00:32:40
That was then treated and she got back to normal, like from
00:32:49
literally not being able to walk .
00:32:51
This is how extreme these things can become and, like you
00:32:57
said, it's like we just kind of blow it off like air quality,
00:33:01
surely that wouldn't.
00:33:02
It wouldn't be that bad.
00:33:03
Or a little bit of mold in our house, surely it would.
00:33:06
You know, just a little bit of wipe it off.
00:33:09
Can't see it, it's not there kind of thing.
00:33:12
Yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker 2: You know, I think one of the biggest issues that I
00:33:16
see is, unless it happens to you , you just don't think it's
00:33:22
going to happen to you, and that that is definitely part of the
00:33:27
problem, because a lot of this stuff could be prevented if you
00:33:30
looked at it proactively.
00:33:31
And, let's face it, you know if you start getting mold and
00:33:35
bacteria problems, you're going to have to renovate your home.
00:33:38
It's going to be expensive.
00:33:39
So you're much better off looking into things now, making
00:33:44
sure being aware of it now, making sure you're inspecting
00:33:48
your roof and windows and all the points that water can
00:33:51
intrude, and making sure your HVAC systems clean and properly
00:33:56
maintained if you have one, because the alternative is
00:33:59
getting sick and then still not believing you're sick because
00:34:04
it's your house, going on this journey to circle right back
00:34:08
full circle to realize it is your house and all the time and
00:34:13
money spent in between that gets wasted.
00:34:16
This is probably the average person.
00:34:18
That I'm describing is the exact client story that I could
00:34:23
share on almost every client, and it doesn't matter how rich
00:34:27
they are or how poor they are or what their social status is.
00:34:31
It happens to all of us.
00:34:33
Why?
00:34:34
Because what do we have in common?
00:34:35
We live indoors and if we can just shorten that suffering
00:34:41
cycle just a little bit, just give people the information in a
00:34:46
clear and concise way so that they can understand, wow, I
00:34:52
never thought about the quality of air that I breathe inside my
00:34:55
house more than ever before.
00:34:57
And listen, I know there are people listening that are
00:35:00
probably very health conscious that might have some air
00:35:03
purifiers plugged in around their house and that helps for
00:35:06
sure.
00:35:06
But let's go a step further.
00:35:09
Let's look at our house.
00:35:10
Let's look at the roof, let's look at the windows, let's test
00:35:13
for mold, because if we find mold, we're going to find
00:35:16
bacteria.
00:35:17
They grow in the same locations , taking up the same amount of
00:35:21
real estate from water, because they both need water to grow and
00:35:24
survive.
00:35:24
So when we start looking at these different culprits that
00:35:28
affect our air quality inside our house, if we start to do
00:35:32
things about it, I bet if one person from this podcast
00:35:36
listening goes and finds something and fixes it, even if
00:35:39
they feel 99% healthy, I bet you it makes a difference.
00:35:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
00:35:45
So I'd love to pick your brains a little bit about some of
00:35:51
those things that we can do to check what's going on in our own
00:35:55
homes, but I'd also like to hear a bit more about like your.
00:35:59
So you mentioned right at the beginning that you've, like
00:36:03
we're here to talk about home cleanse, right?
00:36:05
Which is the system, would we call it, that you have developed
00:36:09
to help people who do find mold in their homes?
00:36:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:36:15
Speaker 1: And to help them clean it up and purify their air
00:36:19
.
00:36:19
So you talked about going on this long journey of, you know,
00:36:28
finding out what is actually going on.
00:36:30
Then, from from all of that information that you've
00:36:37
uncovered, how did you go about developing the system that
00:36:44
you've got?
00:36:51
Do you have a background as a scientist or like a, or was it
00:36:55
just like?
00:36:58
Speaker 2: Well, no, I had to basically develop a background
00:37:00
as a scientist.
00:37:01
My background was in we're talking.
00:37:04
I was in my mid twenties and I just got out of school and I was
00:37:08
studying marketing.
00:37:09
Okay, so I went from marketing to you know, let me work for my
00:37:15
dad a little bit and show you know, show him some modernized
00:37:18
marketing tactics to the holy, holy cow.
00:37:22
We have a problem here with, with, with what's going on to
00:37:26
then.
00:37:26
I have to study microbiology, because I have to.
00:37:28
In order for me to create it and develop a process, I have to
00:37:31
understand what is happening from the microbiology world
00:37:36
that's impacting the construction world.
00:37:38
Okay, in the United States we have these big, massive, you
00:37:43
know companies that if you have water intruded into your house,
00:37:48
you would call your insurance company.
00:37:50
Your insurance company would send one of these big, massive
00:37:52
companies to your house and it's it's.
00:37:55
It's a very much so construction like world where
00:38:00
they come in, they rip some stuff out, maybe they spray some
00:38:03
chemicals, and they're out your front door.
00:38:05
They're mainly billing the insurance companies for all the
00:38:09
fans they set up all over the place to just, you know, dry
00:38:12
everything out.
00:38:12
It's, it's like a whole.
00:38:13
When you really, when I really started to understand what is
00:38:19
happening, I was completely mind blown, because just setting up
00:38:26
the fans is a problem, because now you're blowing, blowing this
00:38:29
stuff around, so just that and itself is a problem.
00:38:33
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:38:34
Speaker 2: This gets done.
00:38:34
There are 50 companies in the United States alone that
00:38:38
come in in this same approach cut stuff out, set up fans and
00:38:41
just blow stuff around.
00:38:43
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:38:43
Speaker 2: So I quickly realized okay, there is a fundamental
00:38:48
problem with how this whole industry looks at this, because
00:38:53
you have the organism itself, which that's all they're
00:38:56
concerned with.
00:38:57
Okay, yep, but then you have the byproducts that the organism
00:39:01
creates, the spores, the toxins that they are not educating
00:39:07
people on I don't even think that they themselves are
00:39:10
educated on it and certainly they're not addressing they just
00:39:14
want to get out of there and get paid Right At the end of the
00:39:18
day.
00:39:19
They have made such a mess in people's homes that for seven
00:39:24
years after this hurricane I was still refixing homes that were
00:39:29
supposedly fixed, and I think that's how I started to kind of
00:39:34
build a name for myself, if you will, as this person that really
00:39:37
understands it can help people Thereafter.
00:39:40
The process really is fundamentally very simple, and I
00:39:45
think when things are simple they work.
00:39:47
You have to yes, you have to open the wall, you have to
00:39:50
remove the mold organism, but then you have to understand okay
00:39:54
, well, that organism might have been there for two years and in
00:39:58
those two years it's been creating these particles.
00:39:59
And we have to understand if it's in the HVAC, because if so,
00:40:03
that's got to be cleaned and dealt with properly.
00:40:05
Then what about all the person's stuff?
00:40:08
Well, it settles in the dust, it becomes a part of our stuff
00:40:12
essentially.
00:40:12
Well, all that has to be cleaned.
00:40:14
Wow, the house itself and every all the dust that's been
00:40:18
accumulating in that house that has to be cleaned right.
00:40:21
So I started developing this very thorough process and, of
00:40:25
course, insurance companies were not very friendly towards this
00:40:29
adaptive adaption to process, but it's necessary and after
00:40:35
doing this the way I've been doing it for the past 12 years,
00:40:39
actually it was really amazing to see there the main
00:40:44
organization that provides standards that the insurance
00:40:48
companies use is now changing to follow closer to my process,
00:40:54
which is great because that means that these insurance
00:40:56
companies are going to have to pay a little more money to do
00:41:00
things a little more properly, which is what we need.
00:41:03
After developing that process, I started getting calls from
00:41:08
people all over the country.
00:41:09
It wasn't just the New York area, where I'm from.
00:41:12
California needed help, and Florida needed help and Iowa
00:41:16
needed help, and I pretty much was forced into figuring out how
00:41:20
to make a nationwide company at that point to cover and go
00:41:24
anywhere we're needed.
00:41:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow.
00:41:26
Speaker 2: And so you know, I went from like one truck and a
00:41:29
couple of people that were trained by me to like 25 trucks
00:41:33
and many people trained by me, and it is extremely rewarding,
00:41:39
extremely exhausting, and you know it's a roller coaster of
00:41:44
fun, excitement and challenges.
00:41:47
Speaker 1: You know, definitely yeah.
00:41:49
Speaker 2: And you know that is pretty much how you know the
00:41:52
story goes with processes and all of these things.
00:41:55
But you know, all I really did, I didn't invent anything.
00:42:00
I didn't really figure anything out that wasn't already written
00:42:06
by other scientists in textbooks.
00:42:09
But what happens is, when you look at it from this perspective
00:42:14
of how do I create and define a process, I had to search maybe
00:42:19
20 different places and compile pieces of information from 20
00:42:24
different places to put it together, like my cleaning
00:42:26
protocol.
00:42:27
It's not from the mold industry .
00:42:29
They don't have a cleaning protocol.
00:42:31
I had to take it from the chemical cleanup industry
00:42:34
because, you know, we have oil spills, we have chemical spills
00:42:38
and all of that gets cleaned up in a very specific way.
00:42:41
And since mycotoxins are toxins produced by mold actually more
00:42:47
relate to a chemical exposure because it's a toxin, not really
00:42:52
like a particle cleanup.
00:42:53
It's a little bit different.
00:42:55
And so I started taking bits and pieces from other industries
00:42:59
and applying it together and once it worked and I can prove
00:43:04
that it worked time and time again by post-testing the place
00:43:08
after the fact, using, you know, a lot more technological
00:43:12
testing standards than the industry itself did then I
00:43:16
realized this could be done everywhere, anywhere you know,
00:43:20
as long as you apply these principles to the building
00:43:23
specifically.
00:43:25
Speaker 1: Wow, before we talk about some of the things that
00:43:30
you do and the system that you have, thank you.
00:43:35
When the normal everyday person thinks about mold, we think
00:43:46
about bleach.
00:43:47
Right, using bleach, just get rid of it.
00:43:49
Now, in my perspective, that seems like you're exposing
00:43:59
yourself to two tokens, and I've heard that it doesn't actually
00:44:04
get rid of mold.
00:44:05
Your products and your system have natural.
00:44:11
You use natural.
00:44:12
No, they're not chemicals, natural stuff.
00:44:16
Speaker 2: They're not chemicals , right yeah, natural all the
00:44:18
time.
00:44:18
Speaker 1: Natural products yeah yeah.
00:44:21
So that's obviously an important thing, isn't it?
00:44:24
And I guess, if we go back to like the basics of plants and
00:44:28
how they operate because I guess , like mold, is a kind of a
00:44:32
growing organism, plant type thing Botanicals have properties
00:44:39
in them to fight off mold, don't they?
00:44:42
So, for example, I know that tea tree is great for mold
00:44:48
because tea tree grows in hot, moist climates which are more
00:44:58
susceptible to mold.
00:44:59
So to stop them their roots from rotting, they kill it.
00:45:03
So it kind of makes complete sense that you would use
00:45:06
botanicals.
00:45:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are quite a few essential oils that are
00:45:13
really effective as disinfectants, and that's what
00:45:20
you're looking for.
00:45:20
When you're removing something like mold, you want to
00:45:23
accomplish three things.
00:45:24
You want to disinfect.
00:45:25
You also want something that has a surfactant in it, which is
00:45:31
really like the scientific term for dish soap, just to give
00:45:34
people some reference here.
00:45:35
You need something that soaps up and helps degrease and remove
00:45:39
particles, and you want something that is not going to
00:45:44
be toxic itself to your health, right?
00:45:47
Especially in today's world, there are so many botanical
00:45:50
options out there.
00:45:51
It's like why would you reach for the bleach, go for these
00:45:55
different things that you know?
00:46:00
Here's my take on this.
00:46:01
If the directions tell you that you have to ventilate the room
00:46:06
thoroughly to use the product, probably not a good idea,
00:46:10
because what it's telling you is if you put this stuff in a
00:46:12
small room and breathe enough of this stuff in, you're probably
00:46:15
going to die.
00:46:15
So they're literally telling you on the bleach instructions
00:46:20
make sure you ventilate very well or a lot of serious
00:46:23
complications can happen.
00:46:24
Well, that's probably not a product I want to be using in my
00:46:28
home.
00:46:28
Now listen, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so bleach was
00:46:36
associated with clean smell.
00:46:39
Oh yeah, yeah, I think we have all experienced that euphemism
00:46:44
at some point, where we think that bleach means clean, but it
00:46:48
doesn't.
00:46:48
That smell is actually toxins entering your body and passing
00:46:53
through your olfactory senses.
00:46:54
The thing about bleach is for mold is it actually is not
00:46:59
effective at killing mold or removing mold.
00:47:01
It's effective at bleaching mold, and so I'm pretty sure you
00:47:06
don't care about what color it is, you just want it out of
00:47:08
there, and so there are so many better alternatives, like
00:47:14
botanical options thymol, tea tree oil, as you mentioned.
00:47:18
These are really good essential oil-based botanical products
00:47:24
that you can buy that you can use to clean it up safely and
00:47:27
effectively without any additional exposures.
00:47:36
Speaker 1: Cool, Now you were talking about when you were
00:47:40
going into houses.
00:47:41
I'm wary of the time we started .
00:47:43
We were running a little late, so I've got a couple more things
00:47:49
that I'd love to talk to you about.
00:47:50
Yeah, yeah, we have time, yeah, cool.
00:47:53
So you were talking about when you've gone into homes and
00:48:00
you've had to fix up these issues with mold and air quality
00:48:08
, and you talked about the furniture and the clothes and
00:48:12
how everything has to be treated , and I feel like that, for
00:48:15
someone, could be really overwhelming.
00:48:17
But I did see on your website that you actually have like do
00:48:24
you have products that people can use at home on their own?
00:48:30
Is it?
00:48:33
Well, I want to know what your system is.
00:48:35
I'd love to hear more about that, obviously, because that's
00:48:39
what we're here for.
00:48:40
But are there different levels of what people need?
00:48:48
And I guess that will then lead us to how does someone know
00:48:52
what they need?
00:48:53
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, so there definitely are different levels
00:48:56
of what they need.
00:48:57
Not every single person is going to need the exact same
00:49:01
thing, and that's mainly because your house might have a totally
00:49:05
different problem than my house , but I still need to get you
00:49:10
solutions the same way I would get myself solutions, and so the
00:49:15
process had to be tailored to becoming a data-driven process
00:49:20
around figuring out exactly what's going on in the home and
00:49:23
then taking a plan of how you're going to address it.
00:49:26
And I think cost is always everybody's biggest barrier to
00:49:33
trying to get healthier, and this is the same problem.
00:49:36
The barrier is going to be I can't afford to do everything.
00:49:41
So tell me what's the top three most important things I need to
00:49:45
do, and so we have a process for that how we look through the
00:49:49
data, understand what molds are present, how much mold is
00:49:54
present, what bacterias are present, how much bacteria is
00:49:57
present?
00:49:58
Are we talking about something that affects a large area of the
00:50:02
home, that impacts a large volume of air that you're
00:50:05
breathing in?
00:50:05
Well, good, I'm going to probably prioritize that over a
00:50:09
little leak in the sink, unless, of course, that little leak
00:50:12
wasn't so little.
00:50:13
So it's everything kind of gets put into a process that derives
00:50:19
from data.
00:50:21
Now, how does somebody start?
00:50:23
Well, this has been the other amazing and challenging part of
00:50:29
my journey.
00:50:29
Was you start telling people, hey, go test for these things.
00:50:34
And what do people do?
00:50:36
Well, they call anybody and they say do you test for these
00:50:40
things?
00:50:40
Good, can you come and test for these things?
00:50:42
Well, one thing that I forgot about was that it wasn't just
00:50:47
the people fixing the homes that had this archaic way of doing
00:50:51
things.
00:50:51
It was also the people inspecting the homes that had
00:50:55
this archaic way of doing things , because they worked together
00:50:58
with these people day in and day out, and there was this common
00:51:03
understanding where you just came in and you took an air
00:51:06
sample, and as long as the air sample was less than outside,
00:51:10
everything is good.
00:51:11
And that was just this whole system of how it was set up.
00:51:15
And so people would call these inspectors.
00:51:18
They'd come over, take an air sample in the center of their
00:51:21
house.
00:51:21
Numbers would look good.
00:51:23
They'd tell them guess what?
00:51:24
House is perfect.
00:51:26
Okay, so let's talk through why that doesn't work.
00:51:31
Let's just say we have a room that is 10 feet long by 10 feet
00:51:37
wide, all right, so my horrible meter conversion would be like
00:51:43
three and a half meters by three and a half meters.
00:51:46
The testing technology really only captures.
00:51:51
What did we learn from COVID about one to two meters away?
00:51:55
Right yeah, this testing technology really only captures
00:51:59
three to six feet or one to two meters away.
00:52:02
So if I'm testing in the center of the room, I'm pretty much
00:52:05
further away from where the problem might be.
00:52:08
Because how often do we have leaks in the center of our room?
00:52:11
Not pretty often.
00:52:13
We're going to have leaks on an interior wall where there's
00:52:16
plumbing, or we're going to have leaks on an exterior wall
00:52:19
because it's coming in from the weather outside.
00:52:21
So if I test in the center of a room, well guess what I am
00:52:27
going to most likely show.
00:52:29
It looks normal when just two feet away or less than a meter
00:52:36
away, if I just move this machine to test, it would show
00:52:40
off the charts levels.
00:52:42
So that became this other problem of people saying well,
00:52:46
my house is fine, I've tried everything, I'm hopeless, my
00:52:52
doctor doesn't know what's wrong with me, there's nothing wrong
00:52:54
in my house.
00:52:54
I had this person come out and I'm completely hopeless.
00:52:59
And so this happens so often that I had to tell people to get
00:53:04
another inspection.
00:53:06
And nobody likes to waste money when they do something right
00:53:10
that I said we're going to have to develop a test that is way
00:53:16
more efficient at getting us answers on what we're exposed to
00:53:20
.
00:53:21
Speaker 1: And can people do that at home?
00:53:23
Sorry, I interrupt you.
00:53:24
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
00:53:27
Speaker 2: Because we had to cut the professional out of the
00:53:29
equation, because the professional just wants to come
00:53:32
in and do this air sample, and it doesn't matter how much I
00:53:35
educated the client to interview the inspector and tell them
00:53:38
what they wanted, they just kept wanting to push to do the same
00:53:42
thing.
00:53:42
So I said, well, if we come up with a test that is consumer
00:53:46
friendly, that uses PCR technology so we can get the DNA
00:53:51
of what's actually there, we could probably develop a tool
00:53:56
where people just screen their entire houses and then back into
00:54:01
the data using PCR technology and then create a reporting
00:54:05
system that's really consumer friendly.
00:54:07
Because there was other tests that existed, like the ERME you
00:54:10
might have heard of right that used PCR technology, but it was
00:54:16
very confusing so it almost wasn't helpful.
00:54:19
So we did this and we are working on shipping this
00:54:26
worldwide.
00:54:27
Right now it's based in the US and for the first time, people
00:54:31
are using this tool as their step one.
00:54:34
Do I have a problem?
00:54:39
Speaker 1: So do they do the test and then send it back to
00:54:42
you?
00:54:43
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.
00:54:43
So I think we've all tried an at home test or two before at
00:54:50
this point.
00:54:50
It's pretty much like every other at home test.
00:54:54
This was a sample box here, but you open this box and it looks
00:55:02
something like this and it comes with a little like a Swiffer
00:55:06
cloth.
00:55:07
That's the best way to describe it and it's completely sanitized
00:55:11
and vacuum sealed.
00:55:12
You collect dust from across your house.
00:55:14
You send it back back in this little box.
00:55:18
It arrives to the laboratory we partner with the largest
00:55:23
laboratory in the United States for environmental services and
00:55:27
they analyze it.
00:55:28
It goes right back into our reporting template so that it's
00:55:32
consumer friendly and easy to understand.
00:55:34
It's beautifully color coded so you can know this abnormal or
00:55:38
10 times higher or 100 times higher.
00:55:41
What are we looking for here?
00:55:42
And one of the reasons that you know the limit.
00:55:46
Every test has its limitations, right?
00:55:48
I just mentioned some limitations with the air test.
00:55:50
This test is not going to tell you where the problem is.
00:55:53
It's just going to tell you do I have a problem?
00:55:55
So this is a much better screening tool because you're
00:55:59
getting an average of what you're being exposed to across
00:56:02
the dust of your house, as opposed to testing one little
00:56:06
cube of space here.
00:56:07
That doesn't give you an accurate picture of what you
00:56:11
might be exposed to across all of the space.
00:56:14
What I liked even better about this whole idea was now people
00:56:18
can take this to their inspector and they can say look, I need
00:56:23
your help.
00:56:24
I see there is a problem here.
00:56:26
Can you help me find where it's coming from?
00:56:28
We're no longer asking someone to just take an air sample in
00:56:32
the center of the room.
00:56:33
We're asking them to put their detective hat on and actually
00:56:36
help us find something.
00:56:36
Now, through this process, we put people back in the driver's
00:56:42
seat.
00:56:43
They are now empowered to control the outcome of the
00:56:47
person that comes into their home.
00:56:48
That has really made a massive difference in people being able
00:56:54
to get where they need to go faster.
00:56:58
Speaker 1: Once they've determined, they've done the
00:57:00
test, they've determined that there is a problem.
00:57:04
What next Do they does the system go all right?
00:57:11
Well, if you've got this going on, like you said before, you've
00:57:15
got the leak under your sink, you need this thing.
00:57:18
The entire house is pretty bad.
00:57:23
You need this thing, or do you still have people that come out?
00:57:27
Is it DIY or a bit of both Can be.
00:57:33
Speaker 2: I just had a call with someone earlier before I
00:57:36
joined you.
00:57:37
Actually, they're doing a lot of this stuff DIY.
00:57:40
We went over the results.
00:57:41
Based upon their specific results, I was like it's most
00:57:44
likely in the HVAC system, because it's not so high where
00:57:49
I'm like there has to be massive leaks happening here.
00:57:51
It's not so low where the place is perfect.
00:57:55
We looked at it and said my guess is it would be the HVAC
00:58:01
system.
00:58:01
I asked them some questions and the last time they had it
00:58:04
cleaned it's been four years.
00:58:05
It's far too long.
00:58:07
It's probably in the HVAC system.
00:58:10
What sort of filter do you have?
00:58:11
Well, not a very good one.
00:58:12
If you don't have a very good one, these tiny particles pass
00:58:15
the filter because they're not efficient enough.
00:58:18
They're not capturing these tiny particles and they're
00:58:20
getting to the system.
00:58:21
We worked through that.
00:58:23
What sort of?
00:58:25
Have you had any leaks recently ?
00:58:27
Because I noticed on the test there was a species called
00:58:29
catomium.
00:58:30
Catomium takes three to five days to grow.
00:58:32
Could only grow if there's a leak.
00:58:35
Have you had any leaks?
00:58:36
Well, we've had these two leaks , good.
00:58:38
Have you repaired them properly ?
00:58:39
Well, yeah, we did this, this and this Good.
00:58:42
Was there a carpet in that room?
00:58:44
Yes, there was carpet in that room.
00:58:45
Okay, what did you do?
00:58:46
Well, we shot back up the water and we just put some fans on it
00:58:50
.
00:58:50
Okay, did you ever just check underneath the carpet?
00:58:53
No, no, no, we haven't.
00:58:55
Should we do that?
00:58:56
Yeah, well, we've got a lot of things that might be mold there,
00:58:59
because the carpet holds moisture.
00:59:01
You had fans on it, but how quickly really did it dry?
00:59:06
If it's touching another surface Two surfaces touching
00:59:08
one another traps moisture.
00:59:12
They had a laundry list of things to go and look at and
00:59:15
send me an email about and tell me, you know, to kind of figure
00:59:19
out next steps from there.
00:59:20
We got the HVAC clean, we're going to get the HVAC clean,
00:59:23
we're going to clean the house after, because we want to clean
00:59:26
the HVAC first, and then, probably a month from now,
00:59:30
they'll retest and watch those numbers drop.
00:59:32
The only reason a number wouldn't drop is if there's a
00:59:36
source, an organism.
00:59:38
They're constantly creating those particles, so you can't
00:59:44
decipher exactly where it's coming from.
00:59:47
But because I've seen so many of these things and have seen
00:59:51
and understand how these problems develop, it's really
00:59:54
easy for me even to guide people over the phone, based upon
00:59:58
those results, what's likely happening.
01:00:00
And then they just have to do some further investigation.
01:00:03
But they find it Now.
01:00:06
If I had seen their results and it was, everything was off the
01:00:09
charts and you know the colors were lit up all over the place,
01:00:13
which means there's elevation then I probably would have said
01:00:17
look, there appears like there could be several issues here,
01:00:22
and I think the best move at this point would be to get a
01:00:25
thorough inspection done so we can understand and correlate
01:00:29
what we're finding in the dust to where these things might be
01:00:33
growing, because when it gets that bad, there's not just one
01:00:39
thing you can do.
01:00:40
You may need to really look at it and say, okay, well, how many
01:00:43
of problems are there and what's the worst, how much
01:00:47
surface areas is covering and what are we going to need to do
01:00:51
to give them the best three or four steps they can achieve?
01:00:55
Because when you get to that level, sometimes yeah it can be
01:00:59
very overwhelming if you have to work on multiple renovation
01:01:03
projects at the same time.
01:01:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and wash all your clothes.
01:01:08
Speaker 2: And wash all your clothes.
01:01:10
Speaker 1: Okay, cool.
01:01:11
So you've got a bit of a system happening.
01:01:15
You want to reach 100 million people every year by 2030.
01:01:25
So what does that look like when it comes to a process?
01:01:32
So say, I come to your website, do you want someone to go to
01:01:40
your website and then have the test and then start using the
01:01:47
system?
01:01:47
What does it look like for you to reach and improve the quality
01:01:55
of life for those 100 million people?
01:01:58
Speaker 2: I think it starts with being able to reach 100
01:02:02
million people.
01:02:02
And to further clarify I'm not trying to make 100 million sales
01:02:07
.
01:02:07
I don't necessarily care if anybody buys something for me or
01:02:12
not.
01:02:12
What I care about is for 100 million people to now realize
01:02:16
holy cow, this definitely impacts my health and they do
01:02:22
something about it, and there are many people I work with that
01:02:25
do everything themselves.
01:02:26
I sell them virtually nothing, and the reality of the situation
01:02:31
is I don't even look at this from caring about myself.
01:02:36
I have two small kids, a four-year-old and an
01:02:38
eight-year-old.
01:02:40
If the population has been getting sicker since I'm a kid
01:02:44
and continues to go in that trajectory, as I'm getting into
01:02:50
the grave, if you will, and this is being passed down to my kids
01:02:53
and my grandkids and I have done nothing about this, what
01:03:00
kind of world are we leaving for the future generations?
01:03:05
And listen, I could be wrong.
01:03:06
Maybe my theory is wrong, maybe it's not, maybe air quality
01:03:09
isn't the missing link, like I think it is, maybe it's not, but
01:03:15
if I'm right, that helps so many people and I think that's
01:03:22
kind of the place where I'm sitting, and it's like if I can
01:03:27
help 100 million people, which is not easy to do.
01:03:29
By the way, I'm sure a lot of people listening are like 100
01:03:33
million, yeah, that's crazy, and I think the nice thing about
01:03:38
setting goals is if you reach for the stars, you might land up
01:03:44
on the moon, which wouldn't be a bad shot either.
01:03:48
If I do 50 million instead of 100 million, I think I'll be
01:03:51
very pleased with myself for the effort that I put forth.
01:03:54
I don't have a process for this part.
01:03:57
I'm going to be very blunt.
01:04:01
Speaker 1: Wow, they keep telling people and keep doing
01:04:03
what you do.
01:04:05
Speaker 2: You know if you ask what my process is.
01:04:07
I'm on here with you.
01:04:08
I try to go on as many podcasts as I possibly can because I
01:04:11
want people to really get this information.
01:04:14
I go on every news network that I possibly can.
01:04:20
I'm wrapping up my second book as we speak that hopefully does
01:04:25
better than the first book, and I'm just taking every step that
01:04:29
I can take and I say yes to everything.
01:04:32
I mean people tell me you need to start saying no to things and
01:04:35
I'm like no, because the more that I can get the message
01:04:38
across, the closer I get to that goal, and I think that if I can
01:04:45
even just make a sliver, just a sliver of health, hope and
01:04:52
happiness for somebody, it's all worth it and I think that's key
01:04:56
.
01:04:57
There was a book that I read that I think honestly changed my
01:05:00
life.
01:05:00
It was called the Healing Organization.
01:05:01
I don't know if you've heard of it, but the premise of the book
01:05:05
is there are so many of us that exist that create businesses,
01:05:11
that are entrepreneurs, that want to make a living creating
01:05:16
something unique, cool, amazing.
01:05:18
Of course, anything that we personally create, we will
01:05:22
always think it's amazing.
01:05:23
We're biased.
01:05:23
The premise of this book is to not just create something cool
01:05:30
or unique or useful, but to create something and to do good
01:05:34
in the world.
01:05:36
I think so many of us we rely on our governments to do good in
01:05:41
the world, and I think a lot of us, no matter what political
01:05:45
affiliation you may be, probably get disappointed in that
01:05:49
process, right, it's why, every few years, we're screaming let's
01:05:52
change regimes.
01:05:53
But we just see, saw and that never seems to work.
01:05:57
But what if we could do something about the world we
01:06:00
live in by creating amazing things that help other people?
01:06:04
And look from an economic standpoint how is our global
01:06:10
economy doing when 60% of the global economy is dealing with
01:06:14
chronic illness?
01:06:15
How many people are suffering and in poverty because of that?
01:06:19
That don't need to be?
01:06:20
How many people are not contributing to the flow of the
01:06:27
universe, if you will, because they are too sick to yeah, yeah,
01:06:31
Very true.
01:06:33
Speaker 1: I'm totally down with what you're saying and what I
01:06:36
love about what you're doing is that and this is kind of like
01:06:41
where I come from with a lot of the stuff that I like to teach
01:06:47
people Is that you're empowering people to actually go hang on a
01:06:54
minute something's going on and find out, because we do have
01:07:03
the ability to take control of what's going on in our homes, in
01:07:08
our bodies, and we forget right , we forget Life's fast.
01:07:16
There's a lot of stuff going on.
01:07:18
We get exposed to a whole bunch of other stuff that tells us
01:07:22
that we need to work, we need to buy this, we need to do this,
01:07:24
we need to eat this, we need to, you know, and we forget you
01:07:29
could even go so far, you know.
01:07:32
Then you get sick and then you go to the doctors and you need
01:07:36
to take this, and people just get into this whole momentum of
01:07:39
like someone else telling them what to do.
01:07:43
But what I love about what you're doing and what I believe
01:07:49
is really important is to give people their power back and,
01:07:55
yeah, make open their eyes to the possibilities of what you
01:08:01
can actually do for yourselves to be more energized, to be
01:08:06
healthier and like, I'm totally with you when it comes to the
01:08:11
small people you know and teaching them and creating a
01:08:17
better world and a better future for them, whatever that may
01:08:21
look like, Because I've got a seven and a nine year old as
01:08:28
well and, yeah, I think it's really important for us to
01:08:33
remember that if we're healthier , we're more energized, we can
01:08:37
take better care of those people and we can think more
01:08:42
positively about how we can support other people as well.
01:08:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
01:08:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to close, but just before we do
01:08:56
anywhere.
01:08:58
Where can we direct people to find out more about home plans?
01:09:03
Your book, how do we get?
01:09:07
Speaker 2: the weather.
01:09:08
Speaker 1: How do we help you reach your 100 million, apart
01:09:12
from on the podcast, obviously.
01:09:14
Speaker 2: So, please, you can definitely go to my website.
01:09:19
It's themichaelrabinocom, and there's a wealth of information,
01:09:24
blogs, all kinds of amazing things.
01:09:26
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, there it is.
01:09:28
You should also follow me on Instagram, and it's at the
01:09:33
Michael Rabino.
01:09:34
And, with that being said so my book is under wraps.
01:09:39
It is going to be out in 2024.
01:09:44
And I can't I'm not ready to promote it yet because we're
01:09:49
still wrapping up and putting the finishing touches on it.
01:09:51
But if you follow me on Instagram or if you bookmark my
01:09:56
website or something, I promise you will see it.
01:09:58
But what I can tell you is the book explores how we have never
01:10:01
been sicker kind of like how I talked about today and it
01:10:04
explores how air quality may be the missing link, and there are
01:10:09
a compilation of amazing medical journals, peer reviewed studies
01:10:13
all out there that most people don't look this stuff up all day
01:10:19
long, with amazing client stories, including the story of
01:10:24
Gwyneth Paltrow and Christina Perry, and some really well
01:10:28
known American celebrities and, of course, just your average
01:10:33
families that have struggled as well.
01:10:35
And I think what people can expect from this book when it's
01:10:39
when it does come out next year, is it'll blow their mind.
01:10:44
You know the data that already exists, the information that's
01:10:49
already out there that draws parallels to air quality and our
01:10:53
health, and people will be probably astonished and you
01:10:59
might feel a little dumb, but that's okay that you haven't
01:11:03
known this information before.
01:11:05
And I want to remind you that I talked to doctors regularly.
01:11:10
There are so many doctors that have these aha moments when I'm
01:11:13
talking to them like, oh my God, I never realized that could be
01:11:16
that way it is.
01:11:20
Once you see it, you have an aha moment.
01:11:23
But if you haven't heard of it because it literally is
01:11:28
invisible as you look around, it's just not on our radar.
01:11:33
So I hope that when the book is released, people will find it
01:11:39
informative, because we want to empower people we don't want to
01:11:42
just tell them the world's falling apart and see you later
01:11:46
but informative, eye opening and can finally take control of
01:11:51
their health.
01:11:51
There are so many people that suffer from this.
01:11:55
I estimate about 2 billion people dealing with chronic
01:12:00
illness directly related to environmental exposures and if,
01:12:06
just again, just a slice of those people can get healthier
01:12:10
as a result, that's what I'm here for.
01:12:12
Speaker 1: Right, and one final question, michael when do we
01:12:18
expect to see your home friend system worldwide and in
01:12:24
Australia?
01:12:26
Speaker 2: Well.
01:12:26
Speaker 1: Australia is definitely a market.
01:12:30
Speaker 2: Australia is definitely a market I'm
01:12:31
extremely interested in and the reason being is because mold and
01:12:35
damp I pay attention globally.
01:12:38
Mold and damp has been extremely increasing awareness
01:12:42
in Australia.
01:12:43
There's some in fighting with the medical community right now.
01:12:47
Speaker 1: on is it a thing Is it?
01:12:48
Speaker 2: not a thing.
01:12:49
As I'm sure you might be aware of, the Sandeep Gupta is an
01:12:56
Australian doctor that advocates for seers and chronic
01:12:59
inflammatory response syndrome and mold illness.
01:13:02
So it is very much at probably.
01:13:06
It's probably today where the US was 10 years ago in terms of
01:13:13
pushing forth into the awareness category.
01:13:16
So I am extremely excited about Australia.
01:13:21
It's going to come down to some of the logistical challenges of
01:13:25
being ahead into the future a day and trying to make sure
01:13:30
people get properly trained and finding people in Australia who
01:13:33
want to learn a new way of doing things and, of course, one of
01:13:37
the other challenges.
01:13:38
In America people pay for a lot of this stuff out of pocket and
01:13:42
insurance only gives them a small portion.
01:13:44
So we have to understand how do we help people in Australia?
01:13:47
What sort of programs exist in Australia Insurance and
01:13:51
government assistance that allows this system to work, and
01:13:55
that's going to take some education, probably of those
01:13:57
organizations, to get there.
01:13:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, but it's going to happen.
01:14:01
Speaker 2: Well, we'll stay tuned.
01:14:03
Speaker 1: We'll follow you on Insta and keep up to date with
01:14:07
all of those things.
01:14:09
Speaker 2: At least that will give you all the advice you need
01:14:11
right now to handle things until I get there.
01:14:14
Speaker 1: Great.
01:14:14
Thank you so much for joining me.
01:14:16
It's been a pleasure and I wish you well.
01:14:19
Speaker 2: Likewise Thank you.
01:14:20
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.